Advice on a move to Madrid
 

I am seeking some advice on a move to Madrid that my mother and I are considering.

First let me briefly explain our situation, I am 22 currently enrolled in college full time as well as working full time. My mother is a instructor at University of Houston.We both have had plans for sometime, that would would eventually end up in Europe. After an event like Hurrican Rita (which we were lucky enough to get a flight to Cali to escape) we really started to consider what was important to us, especially in respect to life goals etc (yes I know this sounds cliched).

We came to the conclusion "what are we waiting for?". Nothing is tying us to Houston, and it would certainly be easier for us both to be there and able to support each other than to go separately.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now to the Logistics (and where we need advice)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) What would you guys recommend for finding jobs in Madrid (our friends are going to help us on this but, we need all the help we can get)

My mother is a college instructor with almost 30 years of teaching experience in the Early Childhood Education Field.

I work in the IT support/management field ,I have an associate degree, working on the B.S. (I have a good relationship with my Department Head and he would most likely to let me do a mixture of online courses and independant study to finish up)

2) Best Options for Getting Visa:

I know my mother would need a Work Visa and she would need a job offer from a University/School or other company there to get a visa.

I would love to go on a work visa aswell if I could find a job aswell (since the student visa does not allow you to work and they are only for 6 months)

What would be your advice/tips for this process.



Any other advice you guys can think of would be appreciated. At this point we would like to make the move sometime next summer (giving us 9 months or so to get prepared)


Thanks for any help!

You might want to post this in the Spain or Madrid forum...

I don't have much advice about moving there, since when I went it was on a student visa. I will say that Spain is wonderful and Madrid is amazing. You will love it, I know!!

Wow I didn't even know there was a Madrid/Spain Forum! I will look for it and repost there.

And yes I do love Madrid, its got such a cool vibe.

You note that you will need visas. I imagine you have heard this from others already, but do be aware that you should not underestimate the difficulty in getting a work visa. Unemployment (and underemployment) are still very much a concern in Spain.

You didn't mention it, but should we presume that you and/or your mother are fluent in Spanish? In particular, I mean able to use the language for work. Your language ability will open (or close) doors in many workplaces.

If you are not already fluent or nearly so, then you should start studying, and perhaps even consider an immersion course (e.g., Guatemala has very good and very cheap language instruction -- though the dialect will be a bit different from the Castillian spoken in Madrid).

Suerte,
Michael

Michael,
Neither my mother or I are fluent (that is one of the reasons we would like to go). We do plan on taking courses over the next months, and once we get to Spain one of our friends there is a language teacher, and we would continue to take lessons from her.

As far as the job situation goes, regarding what you said again about knowing Spanish, we would pretty much need jobs in an English speaking environment, atleast at the beginning. She is looking into different American schools.

I have also been looking at the possibility of enrolling in an English teaching certification course, here in Houston, which I could teach English, and the various English school in Madrid.

Here is another Visa questions someone might be able to answer, if she gets a work Visa, and I am not able to, can I still go with her as a dependant even though I'm 22 (but still in college). Thanks

No more different than American English from British. Other than different synonyms preferred in different countries (for a few words), the differences are mostly of accent, nothing else.

Well, don't discount the accent and pronounciation as minimal. I grew up in an area where most of the spanish spoken was by Cubans. Very fast, not very distinctive pronunciation.
Moved to LAX, where the spanish spoken was mostly by Mexicans. It was slower and more distinct, but took me a while to understand it.
Now, I was not fluent, so if you are, it may make less of a difference.
BTW, I am not saying to not do the immersion program in a Latin American country. Still think it is a good idea. But not understanding it fluently, it may take some adjustment.

going to Spain is cool and all, but to move there and get jobs seems like a waste of time . I'm no expert, but I spent 2 months in Spain living with a family and taking spanish this summer, and have lived out of the US for 3 years ,just to clarify that I am completely ignorant.
You want to leave Texas, fine, but why move out of country when you are ill prepared to do so? The whole thing about moving to Europe, while a great fantasy, is in reality just that, reality. No matter where you go, be it Britain, Spain, Oklahoma, etc, once the novelty wears off, you are back where you started. Same $h!t, different address. Except more difficult with a language barrier.
If you are going for practical purposes, learn spanish then by all means go.
If you are going because it seems like an interesting thing to do, then buy a house in the US and take a long vacation there.
That being said, I forget where exactly, but there is a 'village' if you will, where the whole place is a kind of haven for wealthier/ business Spanish people to practice English. They hire people who know no Spanish and all they do is interact with the spaniards. May be something to consider.

As noted by the folk above, you really need to consider how you plan to legally get residency (via work permit or via proving otherwise -translation = lots of $$ or connections ) in the EU before even taking the next step.

Just my two cents worth.

I appreciate the advice, and I do agree our preparedness level is not where it needs to be yet (which is why we have alloted a decent amount of time, and may add more..and why im posting questions on FT ;) )
That being said we do have friends that live currently there(and a family here that is very supportive), and in that have a support group, and we both have been to Madrid several times before and are familiar enough with the city to navigate it with confidence.

Its not so much of an "Interesting Thing to Do", as it is a feeling that we both jive better with European culture and way of life(not to sound too xenocentric), and new adventure and life experience even if only for a couple of years, either of us could always return to the U.S.

I know that once the "honeymoon" wears off it life will return to some sort of normalcy, but the point of going isn't for a temporary high, but to get to know life in a Spanish/European culture, learn the language(s) meet the people and grow from the experience(can you tell I want to go into Anthropology :))

I am looking into TELF certifications, I have a contact at the World Tourism Organization and am exploring in opportunities there. My mother is checking out the various American schools. We are going to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed.

Thanks for the Post!

I can probably help out with some advice.

1. Your visa will take for-EVER. I first applied, with a work contract in hand, in May of 2003. I was approved two weeks ago, Sept. 9, 2005, after countless re-hashes, mysteriously-appearing new requirements for additional seals and stamps in the US, etc. This was a bit longer than normal, but not unusual - the bureaucracy is staggering. You absolutely must have some other means to support yourselves, whether it is being paid in "black money" for work here, or savings, or something else. I was fortunate to have other resources to fall back on. Without, I would have been SOL. Black money jobs will be limited to foodservice and freelance stuff like English classes. WRT IT jobs, you're going to have a hard time even with perfect Spanish. There are lots of people with IT degrees here and no jobs at the moment, and annual salary for a mid-level Java programmer, for example, is about 12000€ net.

2. The government here doesn't care if you're here illegally (past your tourist visa) as long as you don't become a burden on the healthcare system. I maintained my US health insurance just in case. The situation would be vastly different if you were from a different country.

3. It is a wonderful country, with wonderful people, and I plan to stay here.

4. Things are different here. As a good friend told me my first week, nothing is urgent in Spain. It took me a year to fully understand. You need to spend some time here getting used to the culture before you move. Americans have a really tough time getting used to the lackadaisical pace of, well, just about everything. Supermarkets keep bankers' hours. So does every other business. 8:00PM Saturday and no water in the house? Too bad...wait until Monday. You do get used to it, but it takes time. In the bigger cities you'll find some stores that stay open in the afternoon, but aside from gas stations, there aren't 24-hour places to shop.

5. You have to speak Spanish. It's going to be rough going with only English, though it can be done. People just don't speak it here. You can't walk up to someone on the street and expect to be able to ask directions in English (kids are more likely but still rare). That being said, there are little enclaves of Brits who have shops, and bars, etc. and never venture outside.

6. You can learn Spanish while you're here. I spoke virtually nothing when I arrived in 2003, did a two-week "intensive" course in Spanish right off the bat and another in Catalan after a few months, and am now fluent in Spanish and close enough to get by in Catalan (having a Catalan boyfriend who doesn't speak English helped that immensely). I think classes in S America are of limited value, though. There is a definite prejudice against people with SA accents. You're better off to learn the real language, not the one they speak in the colonies. ;)

7. I'm trying to give you a realistic picture, but not to dissuade you. Selling the business, house, and everything in it and climbing on a plane was the smartest thing I ever did. If you guys are prepared for the vast changes in lifestyle, and if you are ready to learn a completely new language and master it, and if you are willing to immerse yourself in the new culture here, it will be hugely rewarded. But be aware that it is far, far different from picking up and moving to another US city.

What is your ancestry? Maybe you could get citizenship from a European country? Italy and Ireland have somewhat favorable rules, for example.

Thanks for the post, I've looked into this..extensively, as the majority of my family is of Irish ancestry. I think i'm 2 generations away from qualifying. In Ireland I believe the rule if you have to be within 3 generations of a citizen, and non of my grandparents had any other nationailities than U.S. ones. Had circumstances been different that route would have been most certainly the easiest.

I saw that place 'advertised' in FT about a year ago and it looked REALLY dodgy to me - I'd be surprised if it was still in operation (if it ever was...)

I've already posted my 2,000,000 reales worth (very old Spanish currency worth diddly squat now) in the European forum, but I'm glad to see Señor Sheehan is getting more pertinent advice here.

I can vouch for everything that alanw has said as being completely realistic. It's probably one of the best 'case studies' you could have to give youa realistic expectation. I was thinking about this last night, and you are actually in competition with a lot of supremely highly skilled Argentinians for IT positions. (They came over not so long ago when the economy there went down the pan).