Yes,however if the child were born in a non-military hospital in the UK prior to 1983, no one would be more the wiser.

I personally know a famous British actor who has been a dual US/UK citizen since the 60's, so what is posted above is absolute drivel, As I have worked/studied and been in and out of the UK for over 20 years, I would estimate that I know at LEAST 200 people with dual US/UK citizenship and possible THOUSANDS of people with dual US?Something and UK/Something and I would strongly urge anyone who is dealing with these issues to not depend on inaccurate tabloid articles, or the fuzzy recollections of people that cannot even cite them. I cannot say for something like this that I just disagree, as it is 100% absolutely WRONG and inaccurate or even dangerously wrong info should be repudiated as quickly as possible. hell, there are at leasta dozen UK/US citizens right HERE on FT, and all that I know of have been so for more than 3 years.

O.K. Let's make this even more complicated...
 

I got an Irish passport in the 80's, because when I was born in The States in the 60's, my father, who was born in the states in the teens was already (automatically) an Irish citizen because his father was born in Ireland in the 1880's. My grandfather died in 1919, and my father has not lived in Ireland since 1921. My father does not recall ever having an Irish (British?) passport or any other document showing his Irish nationality.

Was my father ever a British subject? Before 1 January 1949? He doesn't recall having a British passport, but he lived in Ireland for 15 months when he was six.
Could I get a British passport?

I mean, I already have an EU passport so why would I want another one, right? But, I have always been curious about this.

My brother is Australian (Melbourne as well) and living in the US, married to an American and has 3 kids (4 soon). He had been living as a permanent resident but last year finally decided to get US citizenship. He was able to retain his Australian citizenship without difficulty. All his children are American. We both have rights to EU citizenship/passports but have not pursued, nor needed, them.

I know plenty of Danish-Americans who hold both Danish and American passports.

"and I would strongly urge anyone who is dealing with these issues to not depend on inaccurate tabloid articles, or the fuzzy recollections of people that cannot even cite them. I cannot say for something like this that I just disagree, as it is 100% absolutely WRONG and inaccurate or even dangerously wrong info should be repudiated as quickly as possible. "



Hfly, you're right I should have researched and posted info rather than my personal comments/experience. Perhaps you could do us all a favor and post your source? That should help a lot of "inaccurate" people who also posted.

This is stupid. I post from actual fact, not supposition. I was actually going to start posting links but how about this..... there is a site named GOOGLE, try posting something like US-UK dual citizenship, or UK-US dual citizenship, approximately 35 of the FIRST FIFTY, explain everything you need to know in detail.

It would already seem that those that are posting other silly information are being adequately slapped down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhlyingRPh

Obviously, most people will choose to retain their U.S. citizenship.

PhlyingPPh obviously is one of the many Americans who falsely believe that the rest of the world, if given the choice, would all move to the US tomorrow. More enlightened Americans have explained to me that many Americans are still being taught / indoctrinated at schools and by their families that the US is by far the "best" place in the world.

Many times I've heard fellow Americans say, "This is the greatest country in the world." However, when I was in Canada a few years back, I heard someone say, "This is *one of the greatest* countries in the world."

I like the latter attitude better.

[QUOTE=Hfly, you're right I should have researched and posted info rather than my personal comments/experience. Perhaps you could do us all a favor and post your source? That should help a lot of "inaccurate" people who also posted.[/QUOTE]

Don't let Hfly get your dander up. He always attacks newbies. :o

I suspected that from reading other posts. But I truly would like to see the sources he reviewed for my own info. Perhaps I should renew my British passport when I am there this November.

I do not always attack newbies, that is crap. I attack wrong information especially when it has no back up whatsoever and I and many others know it to be 100% patently wrong. Obviously as this guy either doesn't know what a websearch is, or is unwilling to use one out of bloodymindedness, there is something very wrong here.

How about this, got a TELEPHONE?? Call the British Embassy and ask for godsake.

Let's not focus on individuals here and let's not make presumptions about others' thinking and "patterns".

Dual nationality is a possibility for many people (who qualify for such legally)... and even where it is not, some people have passports from "both" countries anyway.

Many Americans are taught that the US is the "best" place in the world, but many other countries' citizens are taught that theirs is the "best" place in the world too. Even Indians -- who know their country is still a poor country and has room for improvement -- are often taught "Greatest of all places, India is ours." And then there are some countries whose citizens believe their country was divinely-sanctioned. :eek:

When the option is to have a passport of a country whose citizens can travel and/or work overseas more easily or the passport of a country whose citizens are more often rejected for visas, then it may be obvious for some which passport to choose (if required to choose). PhlyingRPh's posts don't generally strike me as fueling the fires of national chauvinism; and no exception here.

Hey take it easy ok? It is not necessary, whatever your beliefs, to display that sort of attitude on this forum.

Good day.

Look, I don't have to call anyone or research anything. I already have both passports, I have already been told I can have dual nationality. I'm okay with that. All I did was make a comment about my personal experience, which was that I was TOLD at the ceremony for my US citizenship in 2002 that our January group was one of the first under the new laws. If I was given wrong info it is not going to affect me at all. My suggestion was to post your links for those who need to know and could be affected.

A British passport (or other West-European passport) is as good as a US one (or even better) in terms of visa-free travel.
And in terms of working and living abroad, a British passport gives you the automatic right to live and work in 28 countries (EU + Iceland, Switzerland and Norway) + probably a few Commonwealth countries, whereas a US passport gives you the automatic right to live and work in ... 1 country. Seems an easy choice to me!

Huh? What sort of attitude?

You could conceivably have quadruple citizenship - e.g. Italian, UK, USA and one bought in belize for $50,000 (if I recall correctly) . All perfectly legal - and that's just for starters.

Is there some sort of secret competition going on in this thread to see who can give the most wrong information in the most authoritative sounding way?

From an official page of the German Foreign Office at http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/e...e/faq/kat3/F10:

I suppose Americans have their 50 states (your "1 country") plus a few territories (Guam, Saipan, etc) to work in and Europeans have their 25 countries (the size of US states) plus a few other States.

As for easy access to countries, I have worked and traveled to many countries in CEER, EMEA, FSU, Africa, Asia, etc that have no issues with US Passport holders walking in without a visa, or allowing an instant visa issuance. In fact, EU and US passports are roughly on par as far as access to States.

As mentioned above earlier, I have rights to an EU passport but never needed to get one (even despite living in Europe for 4.5 years) as my US Passport has been quite adequate.

Not that one is better than another...and that's my point.

If there is a prize for "misleading information" then perhaps that prize should go to the German Foreign Office! The above quote is actually quite inaccurate and misleading because it makes it appear as though it is ALWAYS the case that German dual nationals can keep their dual nationality for life - which is not correct.

Under current law (in force since 2000) there are two ways of being born into German nationality - by descent and by birth. Those born into German nationality by descent (i.e., children of German parents) do not have to choose. Those born into German nationality by birth (i.e., children born in Germany to parents who are residents but not citizens) have to choose between German citizenship and their parents' citizenship before age 23.

This is what I found out so far - but I believe there must be another set of circumstances in which dual nationals lose their German nationality because a friend of mine has recently lost hers (she had a letter from the German Embassy instructing her to return her German passport as she is no longer entitled to it). She was born outside Germany to a German father and non-German mother.

If she applied for and obtained the non-German nationality without first obtaining permission from the German government to obtain the second nationality, that would be grounds for lose of German nationality. I of course have no idea if she did this, but this is presumably the most common.

There is also a new way to lose German nationality: Serving in a non-German military can also be grounds (which I would guess she did not do):

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/e...t/index_html#2

That's right. An EU member state's passport (at least some of them) is better for visa-free or lower visa-fee travel and/or the ability to work internationally. I think PhlyingRPh is speaking from the perspective of having to make a choice between an OECD-country's passport and a non-OECD country's passport. Given that choice, the decision may be more "obvious" -- at least for material reasons.

Concerning Germany, there are a lot of Grey areas. Until not very long ago many Turks did not take German citizenship because not only was it illegal for Turkrs to have dual nationality (with enough loopholes to drive a truck through), but it was technically legally impossible for a Turk to renounce their nationality (and the Turks stuck to the letter of the law where the Turks were concerned). However what in effect happened was that both sides tweaked their laws, and the Turks basically go and pick up their German passports, give up their Turkish passports, but actually hold onto their Turkish ID cards (and can go get another passport tomorrow if they want one). Whether 100% legal or not from both or either side is one thing, but is in fact what thousands do every year.

Dual citizenship is just grand. You can now even take exception to the oath you cited above by not swearing to defend the consitution and the laws of the US.
Israeli citizens can and always could hold both U.S. and Israeli citizenship. It is now possible for other nationalities to do the same. Why put all your eggs into one basket.

Actually the above is NOT entirely true, as it was in fact a case dealing with a guy that had obtained both US and Israeli citizenship in the 1950's that went to the Supreme Court which actually created the precedent that allows US citizens to hold dual citizenship today.

Dual citizenship is allowed in a bunch of countries to maintain so called 'unity within the family'. This is to prevent children from having to choose the nationality of one parent over the other - and thus allows them to live/work in the country of either as adults.

The same often happens in the case of spouses - who do not have to give up their original citizenship once they become naturalized citizens of another country - so as to prevent the situation that their children would have the mothers/fathers citizenship (thru birth) while the mother/father has to give it up while taken up citizenship fo the spouse.

In my experience - laws and procudeures concerning citizenship are often opaque and contradictory - often on purpose so as to discourage dual citizenship (while a right under the constitution or treaty). If you fight for it and jump thru all the hoops - you will often be succesful - even if initialy bureaucrats state it is not possible or present you with a catch-22 situation.

How Funny! I of all people have been branded an American! and apparently a xenophobic one at that. If you ask any of the neo-cons/fascists/nazi's/zionists/white supremacists on Omni, they will gladly set the record straight and reinforce my credentials of being virulently anti-american, in terms of foreign policy at least.

Perhaps my words were not chosen well, but when I stated that most people would choose U.S. over British citizenship. Had you read my post in it's context, you would know I was referring to a U.S. born individual living in the U.S. having to choose between British or U.S. citizenship at age 18. Again, I am sure most people in that situation would not give up their U.S. citizenship.

Thanks for the laugh though :)

Sorry to dig up this old thread but I thought better than starting a new one.

Here is my dilemma. At the moment I have Right of abode in the UK, but I was told by the British High commission in Australia that I would be entitled to a register for a british passport. My mother was born in Britain and so is British by birth *but* she never had a british passport according to the BNA 1948 she would automatically be a citizen by birth. The application for registration requires;
I have her birth certificate, but she never received a passport or if she did she was way to young to remember and now travels on an Australian passport anyway.

Wouldn't the birth certificate be enough to prover her citizenship given that her only requirement was to be born in the UK, and as she has never formally renounced her citizenship she should still be a citizen?

Dual citizen experience
 

This one is relevent for me. I was born in the UK in the 70's to a British father and US mother; automatically from this I had British citizenship. My parents then registered me at the US consulate to receive a US birth certificate and allow travel on my mother's passport (they moved back to the US when I was 10 months old). I had also heard the choose citizenship by 18, since I had lived in the US most of my life and had a US passport by that time I didn't think anything of it. However a few years ago I started looking back into dual citizenship as I'd like to work in Europe and having British citizenship would make it easier; everything I had read suggested I could have both passports. I applied and received my British passport (RFID) last year; this involved sending in my British birth certificate and my mother's passport that I left the UK in 1972 on (amazingly she still had it). There's definitely some tricks with laws and tax implications; Britain doesn't require citizens paying taxes on foreign-earned revenue, but the IRS does. You also officially have to enter the US on your US passport and Britain on your British passport.

Just in case anybody is interested...
 

I was born in the UK in 1984 after the laws were changed. My parents weren't British citizens - they are Australian - but had permanent residency. The High Commission advised me that I couldn't apply for a passport unless my parents' passports from the time of my birth were stamped with "indefinite leave to remain". Fortunately they had kept their old passports, and they did indeed have the stamp.

On that basis I applied for - and was granted - a British passport. I sent all the documents to Canberra and two days later - by express courier - a passport appeared. A little bit surreal - instant citizenship!

As far as I'm aware, Australia's policy on dual citizenship is "we don't care, but don't come crying to us if you get called up for national service".

Pretty much the same as US policy.

I hold US, Australian, and New Zealand passports (and would likely be eligible for a Russian passport if I didn't want to deal with the military service issue). No issues. The 18 rule, as hfly so graciously noted, is a load of crap.

Bensyd - ring the Idendity & Passport Service Advice line on on 0870 521 0410. You will get the correect advice. I know we run it.

The state department is actually expanding 'dual nationality agreements'. One such agreement was recently reached with Pakistan. They allow you to reclaim your pakistani citizinship if your US passport show Pakistan as country of origin. This can only be the case if you were naturalized and took the outh of citizenship (your passport showing different country of origin), yet now the State deparment agrees you can claim fidilety to a different nation.

Is it possible to receive a birth certificate if your not born in the country? I thought that was only done in exceptional circumstances ie someone born in an area where there was no government through war etc...

Birth certificates prove nothing - ask Frederick Forsythe & John Stonehouse.

You'll need a chain of evidence that shows your mother is the person named on the birth certificate.

If she is travelling on an Oz passport then she must have, at some time, become naturalised as an Oz citizen. Prior to that, unless a child, she would have had to have a passport in order to travel to Oz in the first place

What I have learned from this thread:

a) Don't trust what others say about citizenship rules. There are a lot of old wive's tales, outdated information, misunderstandings of the rules. Do your research into the laws of the countries that you are concerned about.

b) Do not only be concerned about your own citizenship. Find out what the rules are that apply to your children. It seems that in some circumstances you may need to take certain actions to ensure that your child can establish their citizenship. For example, it is not clear what happens when a child is born outside the U. S. to one American citizen who has never resided in the United States and one non-American citizen. It appears, based on the Child citizenship Act of 2000 that they can acquire citizenship by being admiited as a lawful permanent immigrant before the age of 18. This is automatic. Alternatively, if they are admitted to the U. S. before they are 18 under non-immigrant status, they can establish their citizenship by applying for a certificate of citizenship. What is not clear, is what happens if they never visit the U.S. before they are 18. It seems worthwhile for children of one American parent to take positive steps to establish their citizenship rights to avoid this situation.

My odd question in this thread.

I'm presently a dual US/Spanish citizen. My father was born in Spain, and held both a Spanish and US passport till his death, so I was entitled to Spanish citizenship, and I took it.

My wife is dual US/Canadian. She was born in Canada to an American father and a Canadian mother.

I've been pondering what the possibility of me getting Canadian citizenship (or at least the right to live in Canada) based on having a Canadian spouse... even though we're both also US citizens, and presently reside in the US.

You can apply for permanent residency on the basis of having a Canadian spouse. She would have to promise to support you (so you don't claim any welfare or other public benefits) for 3 years and show evidence that she plans to return to Canada with you. You'll have to undergo a medical check and pass criminal and security checks.

If you are granted permanent residency, you then have to spend at least 2 years out of every 5 in Canada (or outside of Canada while accompanying your Canadian spouse) to keep it.

Finally, in order to apply for Citizenship, you must have lived at least 3 out of the last 4 years in Canada, the last two of which must have been as a permanent resident.

So, if you have no intention of residing in Canada, there's probably not much point. One other thing that should be mentioned is that if you have kids, they will be Canadian citizens by birth but will lose it if they have not made an application to retain it before they turn 28. They will have to show that they lived in Canada for the year prior to applying or had a substantial connection to Canada.

For more details on all of these issues, check out Citizenship and Immigration's website at http://www.cic.gc.ca.

Ok, but I have already proved she is my mother to get my right of Abode. My birth certificate proved that my mother was the person named on her birth certificate.

She was born in 1948 when Australian citizenship did not yet exist, when it came into effect on Jan 26, 1949 she automatically acquired it as both her parents were Australian, although she had not yet been to Australia.