ozstamps

Lynn and I are flying over for the Las Fallas Festival in Valencia March 18/19/20.

We heard from other FT'ers who went last year you MUST pre-book train or you will not get seats for that busy weekend, as techgirl and LastClass encountered.

I am getting quotes like $US87 EACH way, per person and there is an $US11 "booking fee" as well.

http://www.raileurope.com/cgi-bin/fs...=32&submit.y=4

That's close on $US400 just to take a train - which seems insane. You can fly to SFO for less than that from MAD!

A rental car will only cost about half that, and we have use of that in VCL as well.

There does not seem to be any website I can find that is the Spain Govt train service.

Surely RT tickets cost less than 2 x one ways, on these Deluxe trains?

Is the first Class really worth paying the extra for ..... says it is a 3.5 hour trip.

And if we do not want to pay for train does anyone know whether there is a pretty direct road from MAD-VCL? And approx driving time.

Thanks!

Glen

remyontheroad

Not sure if your credit card will work on their site, but the Spanish rail company is called RENFE.

You can at least save the booking fee.

You're right that it seems expensive, but keep in mind that in Spain, as in most of Europe, gas is about 4 times the price of the US and tolls on the big superhighways are VERY high, so even if driving seems cheap, it isn't always.

Also, keep in mind that you are probably getting hosed by the value of the Euro right now. Not sure how it relates to the AU$, but Americans are sure getting screwed by the weak dollar policy.

One trick if you do rent a car is to do everything you can to assure a diesel car. I've never had a rental station guarantee it at reservation, but I push when I go to pick up. It will really keep your gas costs down.

Can't help much with the specifics of your trip, but hope this helps some.

-R

haveric

I would try RENFRE as well. Look to see whether they have a US sales office, or even make the call to Spain. I'm pretty sure you can buy the tickets over the phone and pick them up at Atocha in Madrid (hopefully your Spanish is decent).

I've found that trains in Spain are often quite slow and have limited schedules, when compared to other European cities, but that Spain has extensive Intercity bus services -- this might be an affordable alternative?

The surcharges charged by RailEurope are almost unconscionable -- they should only be used for railpasses.

SMessier

[deleted deleted --richard, moderator]

*****

yevlesh2

Rail Europe has always been a ripoff. Never, ever use that site.

A quick check of Renfe.es shows prices of 39 Euro each way.
You can buy the ticket online at https://w1.renfe.es/vbi/indexu.html .

And First isn't worth it, IMHO, for this trip.

vachataboon

Right about the gas prices. We were there back in Sept. 2004 and had a BMW diesel. Did pretty good in gas. MAD to Valencia is a good day drive. I think it was 4-5 hours. I don't remember if there was a toll road on the way, if there was it wasn't very long or expensive. However, we didn't go direct from MAD. We had been down in Sevilla. Definitely get a diesel car.

If you look on a road map you'll see the tollways marked usually as a AP-#.

We enjoyed the drives since we like to look around, which you can probably do on a train, however, we like to stop at interesting places.

Have fun!

haveric

As has been my experience on Spanish trains, you get all sorts of stops. In fact, I think RENFE prides themselves in creating stops on their trains. Unfortunately, they are rarely in interesting places or quite as short as one might desire if they ever want to reach their destination (try 9 hours in Marina d'Elbo on the way from Bilbao to Madrid....)

ozstamps

Thanks for the great and timely input, remyontheroad, haveric, vachataboon, and yevlesh2. ^

I was a bit concerned to click on the link remyontheroad offered as it was all in Spanish, of which we have basically zero knowledge, and oddly on their main site I could not see any English language option, but yevlesh2 seems to have located it.

So please excuse my ignorance of how they work - does one need to have a reserved seat - which costs more ... or is that just an option? We just want to know we have GUARANTEED seats on the train in advance in case it is sold out.

yevlesh2 says that the First Class seat is not really necessary on a 3.5 hour trip, and at about near double the price, tend to agree. These Alaris trains are supposed to be pretty good (and pretty much non stop we are told!) so maybe both cabins are all pretty good? 39 Euro each way is making the car option looking not too hot if we need to pay parking in VCL downtown for a few days.

I booked tickets last year to and from Amsterdam and Dusseldorf for the FT weekend on the very fast ICE train, and recall I needed to pay a booking fee or seating fee or whatever, whether you wanted to or not.

Thanks to advice from FT's here on this very Forum, there were a few links of advance purchase deals posted, and special promo offers, that folks had located for that route. Spanish Rail does not even seem to offer a discount on round trips!

Anyway, good advice to steer clear of Rail Europe it seems ...... they came up high on all the Google searches, and they did seem kind of expensive.

Glen

fm747

Book through the RENFE online booking system here:

https://w1.renfe.es/vbi/servlet/Serv..._INICIO=SIGNON

I get prices of 64 Euros each way per person in First class or 39 Euros per person each way in Tourist class.

To book tickets online you need to register once on their site to get a customer code then you can book tickets online. All you need to then is go to the ticket office at Madrid station show ID and credit card and internet reciept and the agent will give you your ticket and seat assignment.
The booking website is in English.
And yes I advise you too to book in advance.
If you have any problems PM me and I can see what I can do for you.

remyontheroad

Hey, glad we could all help. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I love this place!

Just to clarify how it works on European trains. You can buy a ticket to get on the train, but to get an actual reserved seat, you need to make a Seat Reservation, sometimes at a small cost, sometimes free (or really included in the price of the ticket.

On the high speed trains it is generally required to have a reservation (safety, maybe? no standing allowed?). And for a three hour train ride, you probably want to anyway.

Think about this another way and you can turn the frown upside down (okay... gag! , but you get the idea. ) -

Spanish Rail doesn't charge exhorbitant prices to only do a one-way! They're simply half the r/t fare.


Have fun.

-R

fm747

Just to clarify a few more things for you:

Whenever you purchase a rail ticket for non-local RENFE trains (ie. Altaria, AVE etc.) a seat reservation is automatically included in the fare. When you book online you will see your seat and carriage number printed on the reciept. There is no extra charge for seat reservations.

There is a discount (~20% if I recall correctly) when you book a return trip.

As to the classes they offer:

Preferente...First Class
You get a bit more space (2 x 1 abreats seating) and are offered local (and if lucky english language) newspapers, drinks and a meal/snack depending on the time of day all included in the fare. You also have access to the VIP lounge at the station.

Tourista...Second (economy) class
2x2 seating but (compared to second class trains in Germany and Austria) very generous legroom and a footrest. In both classes there is audio (3-4 channels) available in the seat and a movie (Spanish language only) is shown on TV monitors in the carriage. Headphones are provided for free in both classes. In Tourista no meals drinks etc. are provided but there is a bar carriage where you can buy drinks and snacks.

The Madrid-Valencia trip takes about 3 hours and, in my opinion, First class is not worth the difference in price (39 EU vs. 64 Eu).

Feel free to ask if you need any more information.

ozstamps

Superb local info fm747 - thanks. ^ ^

The website does not mention any discount for round trips, but we have not booked yet. Might be a Spanish surprise. Or it might not be.

That just prices down automatically with the applicable discount I guess when we get to that point? remyontheroad says there is no discount for RT, so I am a trifle confused!

From the advices above, it does seem like 2nd class might be OK, but can someone perhaps advise more on the: "drinks and a meal/snack depending on the time of day all included in the fare. You also have access to the VIP lounge at the station".

Have never heard of rail lounges! Are they like an airline club type deal? And are drinks and nibbles free in the Spanish ones? Might be nice to have a couple of bubblies before we head off, and hence the extra F cost might be worth thinking about! Likewise the drinks on train - but assume that might be just coffees or juices etc?

Glen

FlyerTalk 'Oz Fest #2' in Sydney May 27/29, 2005. Click for details

remyontheroad

No, I wasn't stating fact, I was offering another way to think about your own observation.

(I don't know from personal experience about r/t vs one way on RENFE, or how it works if they do offer a discount.)

fm747

To clarify further:

When you go through the online booking system on the RENFE website and choose a return trip the discount is automatically applied at the very end and you will only see it after you enter your credit card details.

As to the VIP lounges (I only know the one in Madrid):

It has on offer newspapers (Spanish/English), you can get cofe, tea, soft drinks, juices, beer, wine (all complimentary) and some packaged snack items (cookies or nuts). There are TVs and access to phones and a fax...better than a domestic RCC in the USA!

The onborad service in Preferente:

You get offered a welcome drink of oranje juice or water, then they distribute newspapers/magazines and then offer drinks from the bar...beer, wine, liquers, juices, softdrinks, water and a pack of nuts...all included in the fare. You get a menu (Spanish and English). If you travel arround lunchtime (between 12-2pm) and presumably dinner time you will get a hot meal. On my last trip from Madrid I got a tray containing a small piece of pate, some spanish saussauge and ham (cold entree), there was a choice of chicken or beef (hot main course) similar to a hot meal in Y class on a plane and then chocolates or pralines (desert). At other times of the day the choice will be between sandwiches or cake (no hot meal) but still "3 courses". The cabin crew also go round with a basked of bread rolls (not warm though). After the meal they serve cofe or tea and you can ask for more drinks at any time.

Hopefully this will give you a better idea if the higher fare is worth it for you.
I have travelled in both classes, and personally, if it is a longer trip or the trip involves longer transit times I would pick Preferente but fir shorter trips the difference in price hardly seems worth it.

By the way, the Alaris trains between MAD and Valencia stop only once or twice (depending on the time of day you travel).

If you need help with the booking do PM me and I'll see what I can do for you.

Hope this helps

ozstamps

fm747 - superb info ... many thanks. ^ ^ ^

None of this stuff we'd have had a clue about.

Well I am just looking at fares. Assuming it is ~20% off both First and Second class, each way should be E51.20 and Second E31.20 after discount.

Now in Europe 20 Euros does not go very far! We all know that.

Looking at the reality of class difference as you outline it:

1. We can have some drinks at Lounge in MAD, and snacks. I presume we can have a couple drinks if we wish, and get there early enough. Hey, we are on VACATION! Cost of this if we had 2 drinks and a snack at a railway bar would be say E10-15 a person right? Plus this is nice surroundings, and not a café.

2. If we time our train for a lunch time ride each way (great advice) we get a starter and hot meal and coffee and dessert. My experience of train food is that will easily run E15 each at on-train cafeteria, and this way you do not need to leave seat. If we are able to have a few glasses of wine or beer on this 3˝ hour trip, (more than 1 seems quite acceptable to them from your post?) we are saving about E10-15 - no idea what a wine or beer costs, but I bet it is E3-5 each on board?

So for E20 more we save E35 each from out of our pocket?

PLUS get a nicer seat and less crowded cabin I guess?

Does this:


Preferente...First Class
You get a bit more space (2 x 1 abreast seating)

Mean 2 seats facing each other either side of aisle? Could not quite picture this in my mind. But sounds like seats are very nice?

Glen