Aggressive Efforts to get Bumped?
 

Not sure if MileBuzz or Mileage Run is best for this, feel free to move at will.

I see a lot of discussion here about folks that aggressively try to get bumped. What I mean by "aggressive" is that they get put on the VDB list at check-in (regardless of the flight status), double/triple/quadruple check with the gate agents, make sure the agents are aware of their status, etc. etc. etc.

My questions are:

• If enough people are eager to get bumped, won't the airlines eventually figure out that they are providing more compensation than necessary to get volunteers and reduce the compensation?
• If you volunteer before compensation is offered, how do you know you won't get screwed and get a $50 voucher and a meal ticket for an 8 hour delay? If I were running an airline and had people clammoring to get bumped, and had more than enough volunteers, I'd reduce the compensation on a flight-by-flight basis.
• Don't gate agents get annoyed with "aggressive bumpee's" constant interuptions and double/triple/quadruple checking? If I were an agent who was getting harrassed by some desired bumpee, while another person merely put their name on the list (when requested) and left me alone, I'd be more likely to give the bump to the less aggressive/annoying passenger.
• I watch Airline on A&E (Southwest Airlines reality show). Every once in a while they have an episode where passengers actually get involuntarily bumped because they can't get enough volunteers. When do these flights happen? I've seen plenty of flights request volunteers, but I've never seen a situation where they couldn't get enough volunteers by continuing to up the compensation - and that includes snowstorms in MSP where everything was delayed and rebooked for an entire day.

Point/question #4 can be answered with the availabilty of a replacement flight. Try to buy someone off of a flight very close to a very expensive rare event...the availabilty of "open seats" on other flights is zero, the airfares paid were huge, and the rarity of those events is supreme.

This will be an exageration of a hypothetical situation...Cubs win the wild card, make it thru the playoffs, and are on their way to New York for game 7 of the World Series. Cub fans have been waiting for a hundred years for this shot, and the lights are packed...the only person you are going to be able to buy off that flight is a St Louis fan, and he would most likely ask for some crazy compensation.

Now that is extreme, but thats when you get the non-voluntary denied boardings...low frequency service, with long duration until next open flight.

Bumping is a crapshoot
 

I find bumps processes often dependent on the gate agent. Some just go through the motions, some go for least work, etc.

If plenty of vounteers, they will often not offer as much. However, the passenger always has the right to refuse the bump IF they decide they will not take the offer.

What gets me angry..... On overloaded flights, some agents dont even ask for vounteers until after boarding has started. That has resulted in them coming on plane and asking. Why dont they just get volunteers in advance when they know flight is overbooked, even if only by 1 or 2 people?

I usually try to stay a gate as long as possible on overbooked flights (and I have volunteered). I have seen where agent, rather than ask for those that volunteer, asks the last passenger(s) checking in if they would take the compensation and take a later flight. If I am nearby, I remind agent that I should be the one getting the compensation.

On Close flights it is a very fragile balance. Most flights are overbooked, especially during the summer. They may only be over from 1 to 5 and generally they will get everyone on. The balancing act starts when you are close, and a flight with connecting passengers is a little late arriving. You know there could be more passengers coming, but you also know, they might not make it. You can not bump someone on the expectation that the passenger will make it from the other flight, but you have to get them on if they arrive prior to fifteen minutest before departure. SO, that is why gate agents sometimes have to come on the plane and ask for volunteers. Nine times out of ten the compensation is lower if you volunteer, than if you are involuntarily denied. Those of us that schedule so we can be bumped are willing to take the lower amount rather than force the airline to bump someone off.

Airlines use their historical data and other factors to figure out which flights will have more no-shows. It's this complicated formula that determines the number of seats available to sell on planes. When the formula goes wrong (e.g., less no-shows then previous expected), that's when you find a need for a VDB situation. When there's a late plane with a lot of conectees, that would also affect the bump situation. Again, it's a lot of factors that affect whether volunteers will be needed.

I always ask before putting myself on the volunteer list re: the compensation and what flights they can protect me on. Often, I'll have alternative flights ready (mostly on codeshares or same metal) as well so that the GA needs to do less work.

When putting myself on the volunteer list, I always ask the agent if it's okay to check back with him/her a few minutes before the boarding process to check to see how it's looking. 100% of the time, they say it's perfectly okay. I never harrass the GAs because I know it's pretty stressful to close an oversold plane.

I always find that a little bit of courtesy goes a long way, especially if you're looking at picking up a bump.

aloha

They key to a succesful bump is your ability to charm the gate agent. Smile a lot. Flirt if your gender is appropriate. Crack jokes if inappropriate. Forge a bond. Make up a story about how your office booked you on an earlier flight than needed so you don't mind being bumped. In fact, that would allow you to watch the game in the lounge/bar. Maybe your old college roommate lives in this town and you wanted to get in touch with but didn't have the time.... Be creative but believable. The agent will remember you as the guy with the story versus all the other anonymous folks.

Always try to ensure that the agent TAKES your boarding pass from you. With the boarding pass out of your possesion, the onus is upon them to ensure you get it back in time to board the flight. I benefitted once when the agent simply forgot about me and a colleague and sent a flight out with 2 open seats while bumping us! It also ensures that your name will be top of the pile at decision time when push comes to bump.

Be assertive enough that they know they don't have to explain the drill to you, but not so pushy that they feel you are gaming the system. As the flight begins to close, stick around the fringe of their vision but don't approach them until they signal you to or until they are idle.

At the end of the day, always wait until everyone else has gotten their compensation and then ask for $100 more than they got, with a wink and an "I won't tell". By that stage the agent is on a high after having dealt with a stressful situation and you stand a pretty good chance of actually getting it.

If your reroute is acceptable but not optimal take it anyway. Don't piss off the primary agent. Just walk to another gate/counter/desk and tell another agent that you "just realised" that this other itinerary was available and would they be so kind as to make the change. It works more often than it doesn't!

Bumping is an art form. In time you will learn it. It took me 5 years to fine tune my technique but at the peak I was able to rebate almost 40% of my total travel spending through bumps. Alas, my flying is mainly international (hence less flexible) nowadays, so the numbers are down, but the technique is timelesss! ;)

A point of pickiness...

There's nothing wrong with the formula if a flight is oversold. The formula estimates the expected value and variance of the number of people who show up. The only way to guarantee zero no-shows is to never overbook.

Take coin flipping for example. If you flip a fair coin 100 times, the probability of getting more than 60 heads is approximately 1.8%.

So, if you do happen to get 61 heads, it doesn't mean there's something wrong with the coin. It just happens every once in a while.

Pickiness, indeed. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

Sorry guys, I live in Hong Kong and fly mainly international with some flights in China. Bumping is not soooo common here.

What is the joy of being bumped or why are you trying to work out the best way of getting bumped? :confused:

:confused:

Ever heard of probability?

Yes, probability was my concentration while majoring in Math in college. :)

Mahalo Nui Loa for the lesson, I forgot to add. I do understand what you've said, but you're taking one word and stretching the heck out of it. Thus, the reason for my post.

Back on topic, however, I do agree with B747-437B 's point that pleasing the gate agent does help a lot, whether that's acheived by flirting, giving gifts, or just flashing a nice smile, it's up to you. When the GA has the flexibility to choose who gets bumped based on how many VDBs are needed, it's up to you to make it worth their while to choose you, unless of course, there's a predefined system in choosing volunteers.

aloha

I disagree with charming the agent--- that leads to agent favoritism, who is the most convincing liar with the best story, etc., etc. If an agent fairly adheres to "first to volunteer, first to be bumped", with maybe a variation for status a la UA, that's optimal to me.

I personally have been victim of being first to volunteer, overhear the agent explaining rules of a voucher to 2 others ("no, you can't use it to Hawaii"), then after reconfirming I was the first vulunteer as he made the final call, I found the other 2 didn't board after me. An agent on arrival confirmed there were indeed 2 VDBs. That was the last trip I used my US Air status, which was valid for 10 months beyond.

In certain cases, volunteering to be the bumpee (in the U.S.) can yield enough vouchers for many free flights.

Back to the rare event case: I used to take bumps all the time on ORD-MCI flights on the days of the Big Eight tournament. Sometimes they'd need 10 or 15 volunteers to get off a 727 and they'd pay $750 per person. Usually they'd confirm everybody on the next flight, which would also be oversold (but obviously not "to the max"). Sometimes that flight would go over too, yielding another $500 or so. Meanwhile, I'd sit at ORD and watch hoop for an afternoon.

I have taken many hundreds of flights and never seen IDB related to oversell. They always get people off of the plane. The worst possible case - a packed 727, ORD-MCI on the Wednesday night before Thanksgiving - I saw it get to $1000 plus hotel plus dinner plus first flight out on Thanksgiving morning. People were in their seats and nobody was moving as the number went from $400 to $600 to $750. Finally, they got enough people out at a thousand a head and closed the door. I don't know how high they would have gone before IDB - a riot probably would have ensued.

Also keep in mind that VDB is "funny money" (vouchers, which we all love because we are frequent-flier geeks) whereas I think IDB probably involves a stack of cold hard Franklins.

Lots of points here.

Volunteering before compensation is offered: I almost always determine beforehand whether I'm willing or not to get bumped for the flight. So I volunteer as soon as I get to the gate -- whether they've asked yet or not. Some agents go by status, or whatever, but I think most go by the order passengers are put on the list. I won't get anything unless they ask.

Getting stuck with less-than-desirable compensation: Although I've been pleased with any offer I've gotten, you could always just say "no thanks." I really am not out to "milk the system" and really do just want to help the flight agents out. I build flexibility into my travel as much as I can for that very reason. But if I don't like what they're offering and they won't negotiate, I'll keep my boadring pass, thank you very much.

Dilution of compensation: I have no evidence (other than the fact that airlines use sophisticated (read: complicated) formulas for everything from fares to predicted passenger loads), but I suspect that their standard compensation rates have been gleaned from experience with the average rates of how much people are willing to take. Gate agents have flexibility within that program, but if they dropped too low then nobody would volunteer (including me), and they'd really be in a pickle.

Asking for volunteers after boarding: Some things do happen after boarding. Stuff like two people with the same seating assignment doesn't get realized until boarding. I was on a flight once where this happened -- and they had taken volunteers earlier -- so they had no choice but to take one more after everyone was boarded. I bet that guy got a generous offer...

Tips: The suggestions of having available alternate flights ready, and asking the gate agent for permission to check back later, are excellent ones. I'm going to incorporate them into my standard routine! Basically, courtesy is the key. Getting aggressive never got anybody anywhere.

The joy of getting bumped: Because you can travel more! One earlier poster thinks of them as rebates, which is fine. But I like to think of vouchers or free tickets as cheaper future flights! It might make that next trip a reality that couldn't otherwise be taken! :)

I've got to agree with pretty much everything scirel said. Viajero Joven taught me a while back that the most important thing you can have is re-route options. While you have to read each gate agent individually, it's important to be flexible & be willing to take other options. Now, when I travel, I always carry along reroute options (from each airport I connect through to my final destination) - I print out options for the airline I'm traveling on, their codeshare/alliance partners, and then a non-alliance/codeshare partner (also good to have in case you ever need to invoke Rule 240 - which I actually have a printout of NW's rule 240 in my carry-on).

Remember, if you don't like the compensation, you don't have to give up your seat. I always try to check the numbers before I leave on a flight - that way I can be more knowledgeable - if it's a possible oversell situation, I just say a version of PremEx's speech - "I understand your flight's oversold, if you need any volunteers, please keep me in mind - I'll be right over there" and it works.

I've gotten free CO Currency from the GA's in FLL twice for volunteering my seat when they didn't end up needing it just out of appreciation.