Is all this really necessary? I would imagine that two companions for one person on a commercial flight would be just fine.

I would think it's the airport that's the hassle rather than the flight...

A question on ALadyNCal's suggestion: Is this something that would be legal? Your rules may well be different from ours here in the UK, but over here it would be illegal to carry fare-paying passengers on a private or instructional flight, it needs to be a commercial flight run under an Air Operator's Certificate.

Aviatrix:

It would be quite within the rules in both the UK and US (although I have very serious reservations about putting granny into one of a trainng school's fleet, they're just not suited to that type of passenger, let alone then going across half a continent).

Flying clubs etc all have commercial licences and the aircraft are all licenced as commercial, not private, because they hire them out for money to PPLs, do sightseeing trips over people's houses, give kids rides as birthday presents, all that sort of stuff. Even when you're training you're flying on the instructor's licence and he's being paid and so are the school.

Sorry, WHBM... don't know how to say this, and I hope you won't take offence... but I'm afraid your understanding of UK law is not quite correct here. And I am talking as someone who used to earn her living from General Aviation (in an operational/administrative role, not as an instructor) - knowing all these rules was an essential part of my job once upon a time, and I continue to have to know these rules for some part-time work that I do in my spare time.

Flying instructors are allowed to conduct training flights - that's all. I know and you know and I suspect the CAA knows that a lot of so-called "trial lessons" are really pleasure flights. But they're not supposed to be.

To carry paying passengers from A to B you need an Air Operator's Certificate. To carry paying passengers on a pleasure flight you need an Air Operator's Certificate. Flying schools, a general rule, do not have Air Operator's Certificates (they are expensive to get and maintain, and they don't need them for training and private hire).

Instructors are allowed to receive remuneration for instructing, but not for carrying passengers. As a private pilot you are allowed to (a) cost-share, on an equal basis, with up to three other people and (b) accept reimbursement of your flying costs from your employer.

These, I'm afraid, are the rules...

Sorry about this off-topic posting!



[This message has been edited by Aviatrix (edited Feb 23, 2004).]

What Aviatrix says is substantially correct in the US as well.

For such a trip to be legal, the primary purpose of the trip would have to be flight instruction. There is nothing to prevent flight instruction on a long trip such as this, the carrying of passengers on instructional flights, or for flight training to be combined with other purposes.

If brj8826 was already a flight student, and a legitimate training purpose for the trip existed, then this would work. Taking this trip as one's first flight lesson, however, will not satisfy the FAA. They would correctly rule that such a flight should be conducted under Title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 135: Commuter And On Demand Operations -- Commonly called Air Taxi. There is a significant difference between the regulation of Air Taxi and Flight Instruction flights.

I'm not saying that you can't find a flight school that will do this, or even one that doesn't understand that doing this is a violation of the regulations. You can also find some schools that do have an air taxi certificate--especially since brj8826 is in the Dallas area.

You're looking at a trip of close to 1000 miles so a single-engine airplane probably isn't appropriate do to the flight time involved and the likely need for a refueling stop along the way. Look for air-taxi operators in your area who advertise twin-engine propellor driven aircraft.

Sorry if this is insensitive, but is there a pressing reason why flight is the only option (as opposed to rail, bus, or car)? Seems to me making the trip in shorter, more comfortable legs might make everyone's lives happier. I love to fly, but a few hours in a small plane could be a challenge.

Oh, and in fairness to one of the posters above, in some industries (I see it in finance/banking), the shorthand used for "thousands" is "M" (as in the Latin "Mille" and Roman Numeral, so $5M =$5,000. "Millions" are "MM", so $5 MM is $5,000,000. (And yes, I know MM = 2,000 in Roman Numerals; it bugs me)

[This message has been edited by FlyinHawaiian (edited Feb 24, 2004).]

So as not to dilute the thread I'll PM Aviatrix about the licencing issue.

Thanks for all the additional input. Flying commercial or driving the 15-20 hours is not an option.

My mother is in WV with her right now and said she went to the home yesterday and my Grandmother screamed for 3 hours solid.

The longest period she could be in a car would be about 4-5 hours before she would need to sleep/walk around.

I don't mean to sound rude to those of you who are questioning why all this would be necessary but you have evidently never had someone in your life that has been in this stage of an illness.

Why would on come on this board and ask this question, knowing fully well that it could cost upwards of $10,000, if there was another option? That amount of money is a sizeable chunk for my Mom but all of the other "options" are not options.

The reason I posted was because I knew there would be folks on this board who had much more experience chartering a plane than I do.

If my friends have question about frequent flier miles, traveling abroad, etc. they come to me because I have done it many many times.

If I was to go to the local airport armed with no information or basis for pricing I would be serving myself up to their bidding. I like to come prepared.

Thanks again to all of you that contributed to this discussion.

Please check out The National Patient Travel Helpline.

http://www.npath.org/

or perhaps Angel Flight

http://www.angelflight.com/

Perhaps they can help you. Good luck!

birdstrike

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[This message has been edited by birdstrike (edited Feb 24, 2004).]

brj8826,

I hope you'll come back here and let us know what you find when you investigate a charter flight. It's something that most of us have never done so there should be a lot of interest in what you find.

Thanks birdstrike/Larry. I will certainly let you know how it turns out.

People come to this forum on their free time to try to help other people. If you don't like a suggestion, then don't use it.

There is no need to be rude to the people who made suggestions you didn't like.

FlyinHawaii - you've got to read the "MM" not as M+M, but as M*M to make it work.

Hopefully some banker will read that as M to the power of M when it comes to my accounts ;-)

Back to Granny...I'd really consider a commercial first class seat and have a family member sitting next to her. OR, rent a grossly luxurious car for the trip. Small plane flying is NOT comfortable unless you're very experienced with it, flying with a polished pilot, and even then some hicups occur that I wouldn't want to be subjected to, much less have my frail grandmother experience them. As bad and troublesome a commercial flight might be, the risk of an inexpensive charter flight being worse is greater.

"Is all this really necessary?"

I fail to see how this is a suggestion.

I was very clear in stating... "My Grandmother has Alzheimer's and has deteiorated to the point where she could not make it through the ordeal of flying on a commercial aircraft."

Why bog down the conversation like that? Prior to the post I had already made it clear that I knew about the potential cost.

I am not saying that every single post on a thread needs to add the utmost value, but I find more and more people questioning why the original poster would even ask the posed question.

If you don't think the thread make sense, just ignore it, don't question the reasoning of the poster.

I do think the thread makes sense, which is why I'm not ignoring it.

By the way, you chopped off the latter half of the quote "Is all this really necessary?", namely "I would imagine that two companions for one person on a commercial flight would be just fine.", which IS a suggestion.

No one is wondering why you asked the original question. All we're doing is discussing the pros and cons of chartering a plane. It's a very nice topic, so please don't take all the non-charter posts so personally.