hfly

Emirates has exactly 60 people who are actually UAE citizens that work "in the air". about half are male FA's and the other half pilots and/or co-pilots (more of the latter).

As for the Egyptair pilot. The date suggested that the engineer/pilot DID in fact make the plane dive. The audio portion also had such great quotes as the pilot shouting "what are you doing?!?!", "why don't you help me?!?" and "help me pull?" (I am paraphrasing here).

GUWonder

... and he said all of that in English? Those are statements, words, questions and exclamations that someone would say to someone else whom they thought was paralyzed by fear. I would be surprised if the words (even in Arabic) were that intelligible.

Just out of curiosity, where did you get your data on "exactly 60 UAE nationals" work "in the air"?

[This message has been edited by GUWonder (edited Jan 08, 2004).]

dhammer53

ROTFLOL.

Sean, aren't all airline meals bland?

RichardB0777

After reading the link in the first thread that DRONKLAX posted it's very sad thinking that their obvious distrust of diversiy are manifested in pretty childish comments. I hope most of those people never reach positions of power.

But back to the post's topic, I once flew El Al with a colleague who was muslim and he couldn't order a halal meal even though muslims are allowed to eat kosher meats. However the entree that day had kosher wine as one of the ingredients so he ended up eating salad. I don't think it's right that EK doesn't cater to the kosher diet. The expectation that "jews aren't expected to fly" (as the thread in the link starts) arab airlines shouldn't be the reaction or justification of any arab airline company. Just like El Al should't assume that just because the Koran does allow muslims to eat kosher meals, muslims wouldn't prefer a halal meal to a kosher one.

pynchonesque

I don't see why you are surprised, or why you need to point out this particular factoid. Jews are officially, institutionally reviled in much of the Arab world, without any of the self-conscious underhandedness that pervades anti-Semitism in other countries. Not getting Kosher meals is among the least of the problems a Jew (or perceived Jew) would face when attempting to deal with official bodies of Arab countries. It comes very close to belittling these larger issues to be raising a stink about Kosher meals.

Dovster

Moslems, in general, are not murderers. A great enough number, however, are to make it prudent for an airline in a Moslem nation not to advertise which meals will be eaten by Jews.

In fact, I would consider it unprofessional (from a security point of view) for such an airline to let the long chain of people who handle the food know. This is exactly what serving kosher meals would involve.

You're right. I should have said "Moslem" countries and not "Arab" countries (keeping in mind that all Arab countries are Moslem, even if the opposite is not true.) Turkey is Moslem -- including its Kurdish citizens. I certainly would not want to eat a kosher meal on Iran Air, even though Iran is a Persian, not Arab, country.

hfly

GU,

60 UAE nationals is a number I got directly from a senior Emirates official who incidentally was a UAE citizen, coincidentally this was not very long ago, so the number should be quite current.

As for the Egyptair thing, while I was paraphrasing, I think I know just a little bit more about the case AND the language in question, so why don't you stop with the unfounded conspiracy theories.

B747-437B

Not on Air India they arent!

magexpect

1.- You are missing quite a lot: Try Emirates or Gulf Air, 1000 Times better than AA or UA... At least we don't get plastic cups in F

2.- I assume you have no idea of pilot formation. Most of the planes are American (Boeing) the others Airbus. The pilots are formed in Seattle and train on American made Flight simulators. The level of efficiency and seriousness is in my view better than the one of most american pilots.

GUWonder

Replace the word "muslims"/"moslems", with any other identity and it would be equally sound and valid. I don't buy that argument. How about a muslim getting a halal meal in Israel or (sadly now) perhaps in the US?

Is that not what a "hindu" meal or "muslim" meal would also involve? Would there not be the same risks?

If this paranoia is justified, then we all have something to be concerned about. You don't think there are anti-Americans or anti-muslim, or anti-hindu, or anti-christian, or anti-jewish people preparing/packing food for the community they hold in revulsion? I also would suspect that for many decades some amount of El Al's food is catered/prepared by Arabs (Palestinians). After all, there used to be a lot of Palestinians working in the Israeli catering and food processing businesses. [Of course now, the incoming Ethiopians (and others) will fill those jobs.]

magexpect

Stop thes stupid allegations about anti semitism in Arab countries. The way you talk, you probably never have been there, except maybe in Israel.
Arabs in general are not Jew haters but politically anti Israel (with good reasons, I might add.), which is quite different.
People are people and have other things to do than just hate. When travel was again allowed between Israel and Egypt I met members of both communities in Cairo and they went very well along.

As far as attacks of Synagogues are concerned, when was there one against one in Switzerland?

GUWonder

I am not advocating a conspiracy theory. I am stipulating that there is room for interpretation and there were professionally divided opinions. Also, I don't think Arabs can be wrong everytime; however, I am certain you may know more about the case & the language... but who knows?!?! After all, you can know more and still be wrong, or you could know less and still be right.

[This message has been edited by GUWonder (edited Jan 09, 2004).]

GadgetFreak

No, I think you are missing a lot. I am much more concerned with the training of mechanics and their level of experience and the strictness of the rules by the FAA or its equivalent than I am about the cups in first.

As to the pilot, you again missed the point. I was refering to the Egypt air incident from a few years ago, not how pilots are "formed". But now that you mention it, I think that is likely quite different too. A pilot on for AA or UA for instance, in addition to going through the same training that you mention has likely spent considerable time training in the US military and then flying for some number of years in the military. So would I rather have someone who was for example trained as a Naval aviator and spent 5-10 years doing that before going to airline specific training or someone who didnt, well, that is a pretty easy one for me to answer.

My main concern on this issue, although not mey only one is the degree of regulation and the enforcement of those regulations. There are some things that red tape is good for.

GUWonder

Those were Dovster's quotes... not mine. I quoted Dovster to take a position that he was being overpresumptuous and getting into the territory of unfairly painting whole peoples with a black brush based on the acts of a very small percentage of people.

... by the way, I have been to several Arab countries. ;D

[This message has been edited by GUWonder (edited Jan 09, 2004).]

Jenbel

This wouldn't surprise me. About 80% of the population of UAE are expatriates, nationals get a huge number of benefits, so its easy to live there, very hard to become a national.