BearX220

As a default assumpion, that's utterly untrue. Miles accrue to the person who flies, not the purchaser of the ticket.

Under your reasoning, you could also ask your employees to reimburse you $3.00 per flight segment for the Coke and peanuts they were served. After all, they got that snack "benefit" as a result of the ticket paid for by the company, and you have a right to it.

Unless you articulate a policy asserting ownership of your employees' miles, then are willing to cover the overhead involved with tracking the accounts, separating commingled "personal" miles from "company" miles, etc., you have no case.

And if you do articulate that policy, I think you'd find the effect on morale, mutual trust, team spirit, etc., wouild be diastrous. I'm sure I'm not the only one on this board thinking, I'd never work with or for this person.

UALOneKPlus

A very eloquent and well-stated post!!

AAaLot

I don't like it but technically the coke and the peanuts belong to the company...just like when I visit a vendor and that vendor gives me a gift. That gift also belongs to the company.

The company usually [due to current market conditions] allows the employee to keep the peanuts, etc. This could change in the future.

In the cases of gifts, miles, etc. I received these items because of my company's salary, job, and company's paid airfare. I would not have received them otherwise and therefore they technically belong to the company.

Again, I do not like this, but I am just giving you the technical answer.

UALOneKPlus

There are a lot of things that are technically correct but we wouldn't dream of doing them in business.

For example, technically employees should never use the office phone to make personal calls, never use company email to make personal communication, never use company copier to make copies of personal documents, never go to the bathroom except during the strictly defined breaks, never think non-productive thoughts when on company time, etc etc...

It can border on the absurd. Hopefully common sense usually prevails and balances what's technically correct with what's morally correct.

pitflyer

Airlines specifically state that only individuals, not corporations, can accumulate miles -- no matter what an individual corporation's policy says. And I also know that there are some corporations that do say miles earned for business are earned for the company and must be used for the company.

I know the airlines would never override this for a corporation willingly, so basically an employer would have to take the airline (unlikely) or the employee (possible) to court. Or most likely just dismiss the employee. I wonder if there's any legal precedent since there's really no 'law' involved just two companies policies that conflict?

In my case, my company has a statement that they do realize there is some value to the miles I earn on business trips but because it is too complicated to figure out how to recoup that value (and the tax implications of it), that employees can keep the miles. They can choose to use it on business travel but they will not be reimbursed if they do (so you can imagine how often that happens )

erik123

It's not that complictated - employees at many large companies do not get any miles for company flights. Airlines keep the miles and the employer receives a discount.

SkiAdcock

Let's get back to something else here - not all the employees are being asked to use airline miles - that is both unfair & discriminatory. I would politely reply that unless all employees going that have ff accts are being asked to use their miles, then it's not fair to only ask the original poster to do so & gently hint at discrimination. Presumably the boss will either back down or come up w/ some fascinating reason why this person is being singled out (and that may give the poster some insight as to whether he wants to continue w/ the company or start looking elsewhere). The poster may even want to ask for some type of compensation if he does (aka, see auh2o's post).

Unless the poster knows he can get another job in a short period of time and/or has savings, I don't think telling the boss to stick it where the sun don't shine is the best response. I do think it's appropriate to point out the sacrifices made in terms of being away from home, etc, and that the miles are small compensation for it. Hopefully the boss will agree; if not, then again the poster knows where he stands & can make the decision to start looking elsewhere.

Also, since a lot of folk combine biz & personal travel in a single account, the poster would have to look at his account to see if enough of the requested miles were actually biz miles to qualify for an award (the boss really could stick it if he wanted some of the leisure miles).

If this was a very small company & it was struggling and the poster was part of the management team trying to keep it going, I could see where a request might be made or complied w/. But this is a company holding a mtg in Vegas; if they want to save $$, hold it at a local hotel.

Also, as pointed out above, if the policy was set in place when the person started, that's one thing. But if it's not - and also since it's not applying to all employees - that's something else.

And if the boss hangs tough, the poster should probably ante up the miles, and start looking for another job immediately.

And - institute some new working rules - flight travel will only take place from 8am-5pm, no work will be done in the evenings in the hotel room, and no Saturday stay-over flights will be taken any longer. I worked for a company that for a brief nanosecond wanted to keep the ff miles, the employees did the above, & the company backed off, figuring the miles weren't worth the lost productivity.

I also worked for Fortune 50 & Fortune 500 companies that let employees keep the miles, figuring it was compensation for them being on the road all the time (and also because they realized trying to manage the process was a nightmare).
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Sharon

[This message has been edited by SkiAdcock (edited 10-03-2003).]

JetBunny

OK, Mr BossMan, I ate those peanuts and drank that Coke while on the plane... shall I turn them over to you in a tupperware container or is a plastic zip-bag acceptable per company policy?

fiat_owner

Holy cow! Are you for real?

The last big company I worked for had a written policy on this subject. They would reimburse employee-organized business travel at something like 50% of the lowest published fare. Sounds similar to the policy posted by auh2o. I thought that was a pretty fair deal.

I would never agree to an employment contract that contained any discussion of accounts with my own personal name on them. If a company wanted me to use some collective form of corporate FF account, that would be fine, although I'd be sure to negotiate a salary to make up for the lost benefits!

fiat_owner

AAaLot

Technical answer:
It is perfectly legal to discriminate as long as it is not based on race, religion, etc. In other words it is perfectly legal to have all employees named Jon to have to use their miles and everyone else does not.

Technical point:
Unless you are hourly you are hired to do the job that you were hired to do. This may involve 8am-6pm or 8am-8pm or 8am-midnight. The employee can state they will only fly at X time...the employer can fire the employee.

SkiAdcock

So - legally discrimination doesn't apply, but I think it's perfectly acceptable to ask why the poster is being singled out or say they not don't want to give up miles if others aren't.

Also, as long as we're being legal, then unless there was a written policy that existed when the employee started or the posted signed, the employer can't legally force the employee to give up his miles (especially since the airlines consider them as belonging to the individual).

In certain states you can fire an employee at will & perhaps the employer could do so because of not giving up miles, but as I mentioned above, if the boss is hard core, either quit (if you can afford it) or give up the miles & immediately start looking for another job while continuing to work.

Re: the 8-8, 7-days week etc, even that varies by state. Again, if you knew up front it's one thing, etc, but I don't think (could be wrong) an employer can legally force you to do Sat stay-overs all the time.

The reason the flying during day, not working in the evening, etc, probably worked at the company I mentioned is that the majority of the employees started the 'official' hours thing (and a couple did leave) - little hard to let go the majority of your staff at one time. The CEO quickly realized that the CFO's decision wasn't that cost-efficient and the policy was rescinded.

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Sharon

BearX220

Idle curiosity, AAaLot: what's the churn rate at your firm?

[This message has been edited by BearX220 (edited 10-03-2003).]

KathyWdrf

Even better, at a lot of large companies, the employEE gets the miles AND the employER gets a discount!


Kathy

[This message has been edited by KathyWdrf (edited 10-03-2003).]

hfly

Actually Aalot, miles have no cash value, so your assertations are spurious. That in addition to privacy concerns, makes your argument possibly "technically correct" but nowhere near the real world.

pdhenry

You have a policy that says the employees MUST be a member of an airline's FF club? I fly UA. How do you know whether I'm earning UA or US (or Lufthansa) miles?

Maybe I'm the one with the attitude, but if I worked under that rule I'd become a very inefficient accumulator of miles.