Ask me a hotel question
Aug 7, 2002, 4:21 am
#46
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: MUC
Programs: LH Sen // HH Dia; Bonvoy LTTE
Posts: 3,205
What are - in your opinion - the "best" customer groups in a hotel (= bringing the highest revenue) and what are the worst ones (e.g. persons staying 1 day on a medium price, persons staying several days on a very low price; award stay)
Aug 7, 2002, 8:43 am
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,347
I never stayed in the Langham before and never will again. They have already ignored the letter I sent them. The next one is to corporate cc'd to them.
Anpother question if you don't mind: Is it true that hotel toiletries have a different PH level than normal ones in order to keep the pipes clean??
Also, how oftemn are bedspreads and the like generally cleaned? I'veseen some pretty grotty ones even at top properties, also is the "sandwich" or the "French" a sign of bad hotel housekeeping?
Anpother question if you don't mind: Is it true that hotel toiletries have a different PH level than normal ones in order to keep the pipes clean??
Also, how oftemn are bedspreads and the like generally cleaned? I'veseen some pretty grotty ones even at top properties, also is the "sandwich" or the "French" a sign of bad hotel housekeeping?
Aug 7, 2002, 3:29 pm
#48
Used to be 'g_leyser'
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brandon Johnson International Airport (expect delays)
Programs: AA PlatPro, HH Gold, Bonvoy Gold, IHG Plat, Reno Air MEGA Platinum
Posts: 10,036
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LH738:
Wow, you're fast in answering. Thanks. As other Flyertalkers already posted above, there are sooooooo many questions to look behind the counter:
You wrote at the beginning of the threat that you also worked in international chains. I'd like to know what is highly standardised within the chain(s) and where does the single hotels have their (most) freedom:
- room (what must be in every room, e.g. clock; what must be in a room and how big must be the room to call it Suite)
- pricing of the rooms
- breakfast buffet
Are there procedures to check that hotels convert and keep the WRITTEN STANDARDS (e.g. a) test persons from the chain stay at hotels and the hotel doesn't know about the test persons; b) yearly official reviews executed by the chain in hotels).</font>
Wow, you're fast in answering. Thanks. As other Flyertalkers already posted above, there are sooooooo many questions to look behind the counter:
You wrote at the beginning of the threat that you also worked in international chains. I'd like to know what is highly standardised within the chain(s) and where does the single hotels have their (most) freedom:
- room (what must be in every room, e.g. clock; what must be in a room and how big must be the room to call it Suite)
- pricing of the rooms
- breakfast buffet
Are there procedures to check that hotels convert and keep the WRITTEN STANDARDS (e.g. a) test persons from the chain stay at hotels and the hotel doesn't know about the test persons; b) yearly official reviews executed by the chain in hotels).</font>
Ultimately each separate hotel has the final say as to what fixtures are in a room, and what services they offer. Hotels in different cities and countries have different types of guests with different needs and wants. A good example is the beeday (don't know how to spell it) which you will find in Europe but not in the states. Even in the States, golf hotels will have different facilities than ski area hotels, than urban hotels, etc, etc. As far as pricing goes there are upper and lower limits set, but it is usually the individual hotels job to price rooms to maximize revenue for that night. So a hotel can change their own prices dramatically, but could not do a promotion like "rooms for $5" or something extreme like that.
As for suites: they are not necessarily based on pure size (although they are obviously bigger) but rather on layout. So a junior suite usually has a small separated bedroom and sitting areas and usually a larger bathroom (separate shower and bath for example, instead of combo.)
In answer to your second query, yes, hotels do have a written set of standards, and if its a good hotel, are taken very seriously. Some chains MAY have secret shoppers (or "spotters" as they are called in the industry), but what most hotels care the most about are the hotel rating agencies such as AAA and Mobil. Hotels will submit their standards to these agencies. They will then send spotters into the hotel and critique the service and facilities based on the hotel's own standards. These results are then published so they are VERY important. A hotel does not want to lose its AAA or Mobil 5 star rating, it is a VERY valuable mark. Hotel employees get rewards if they can figure out if a guest is a spotter.
Edited for spelling
[This message has been edited by g_leyser (edited 09-19-2002).]
Aug 7, 2002, 3:38 pm
#49
Used to be 'g_leyser'
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brandon Johnson International Airport (expect delays)
Programs: AA PlatPro, HH Gold, Bonvoy Gold, IHG Plat, Reno Air MEGA Platinum
Posts: 10,036
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LH738:
What are - in your opinion - the "best" customer groups in a hotel (= bringing the highest revenue) and what are the worst ones (e.g. persons staying 1 day on a medium price, persons staying several days on a very low price; award stay)</font>
What are - in your opinion - the "best" customer groups in a hotel (= bringing the highest revenue) and what are the worst ones (e.g. persons staying 1 day on a medium price, persons staying several days on a very low price; award stay)</font>
Aug 7, 2002, 3:42 pm
#50
Used to be 'g_leyser'
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brandon Johnson International Airport (expect delays)
Programs: AA PlatPro, HH Gold, Bonvoy Gold, IHG Plat, Reno Air MEGA Platinum
Posts: 10,036
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by hfly:
I never stayed in the Langham before and never will again. They have already ignored the letter I sent them. The next one is to corporate cc'd to them.
Anpother question if you don't mind: Is it true that hotel toiletries have a different PH level than normal ones in order to keep the pipes clean??
Also, how oftemn are bedspreads and the like generally cleaned? I'veseen some pretty grotty ones even at top properties, also is the "sandwich" or the "French" a sign of bad hotel housekeeping?</font>
I never stayed in the Langham before and never will again. They have already ignored the letter I sent them. The next one is to corporate cc'd to them.
Anpother question if you don't mind: Is it true that hotel toiletries have a different PH level than normal ones in order to keep the pipes clean??
Also, how oftemn are bedspreads and the like generally cleaned? I'veseen some pretty grotty ones even at top properties, also is the "sandwich" or the "French" a sign of bad hotel housekeeping?</font>
To be honest, you've stumped me on some of these questions.
I would imagine a good hotel would clean the bedspreads often (several times a month), a bad hotel maybe never, I'm really not sure.
I've never heard about the PH levels in soap, but I wouldn't be surprised. Where did you hear this, I'd be interested to know?
I'm also not familiar with the "sandwich" or the "French", could you explain in more detail please?
I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful there, good questions though.
Aug 7, 2002, 9:21 pm
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,347
The PH thing I heard from a friend who heard from a friend in the soap business. Due to the roundabout way I heard it, I sought confirmation.
The sandwich and the French are ways of folding blankets between sheets!!
The sandwich and the French are ways of folding blankets between sheets!!
Aug 8, 2002, 8:55 am
#52
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Home of the El Dorado Promise
Posts: 462
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by g_leyser:
TrojanHorse -
Good questions.
Ahhh, the good ol' "except for special events clause"..... As for your 2nd question: hotels are rarely actually sold out. There ARE backup rooms. But the hotel will NEVER admit to this. Here's another secret: front desk managers often get bonuses for a "perfect fill". I.E. having the hotel full +/- 2 rooms. So, if you call at 3oclock and the hotel is full, you can call back at 10pm when most people have checked in (or cancelled) and you might get in. (Assuming you can wait until 10 to check in.) If not, always wait list, it couldn't hurt. Otherwise don't bother, just find another hotel.
Good luck!</font>
TrojanHorse -
Good questions.
Ahhh, the good ol' "except for special events clause"..... As for your 2nd question: hotels are rarely actually sold out. There ARE backup rooms. But the hotel will NEVER admit to this. Here's another secret: front desk managers often get bonuses for a "perfect fill". I.E. having the hotel full +/- 2 rooms. So, if you call at 3oclock and the hotel is full, you can call back at 10pm when most people have checked in (or cancelled) and you might get in. (Assuming you can wait until 10 to check in.) If not, always wait list, it couldn't hurt. Otherwise don't bother, just find another hotel.
Good luck!</font>
Aug 8, 2002, 11:05 am
#53
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 628
I too would like to join those who have thanked you for being so generous with your time.
Two questions: 1) how do I leave a tip for an extended stay so as to ensure that the housekeeping manager will be aware of its existence, so that he/she can distribute it fairly?
2) I confess to being surprised about your comment about the credit card guarantee. I understood that supplying a hotel with a CC ensured the hotel would get revenue, but I also assumed this meant that the room was considered sold - to me. Now that you tell me otherwise, does this practice confer any advantage at all to the customer over, say, other customers?
Minor point: beeday is spelt, 'bidet.' (easy way to remember: write the 'ee' sound the way it is in 'merci' and the 'ay' sound the way it is in 'croquet.')
[This message has been edited by simpleflyer (edited 08-08-2002).]
Two questions: 1) how do I leave a tip for an extended stay so as to ensure that the housekeeping manager will be aware of its existence, so that he/she can distribute it fairly?
2) I confess to being surprised about your comment about the credit card guarantee. I understood that supplying a hotel with a CC ensured the hotel would get revenue, but I also assumed this meant that the room was considered sold - to me. Now that you tell me otherwise, does this practice confer any advantage at all to the customer over, say, other customers?
Minor point: beeday is spelt, 'bidet.' (easy way to remember: write the 'ee' sound the way it is in 'merci' and the 'ay' sound the way it is in 'croquet.')
[This message has been edited by simpleflyer (edited 08-08-2002).]
Aug 8, 2002, 6:27 pm
#55
Used to be 'g_leyser'
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brandon Johnson International Airport (expect delays)
Programs: AA PlatPro, HH Gold, Bonvoy Gold, IHG Plat, Reno Air MEGA Platinum
Posts: 10,036
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by simpleflyer:
I too would like to join those who have thanked you for being so generous with your time.
Two questions: 1) how do I leave a tip for an extended stay so as to ensure that the housekeeping manager will be aware of its existence, so that he/she can distribute it fairly?
2) I confess to being surprised about your comment about the credit card guarantee. I understood that supplying a hotel with a CC ensured the hotel would get revenue, but I also assumed this meant that the room was considered sold - to me. Now that you tell me otherwise, does this practice confer any advantage at all to the customer over, say, other customers?
Minor point: beeday is spelt, 'bidet.' (easy way to remember: write the 'ee' sound the way it is in 'merci' and the 'ay' sound the way it is in 'croquet.')
[This message has been edited by simpleflyer (edited 08-08-2002).]</font>
I too would like to join those who have thanked you for being so generous with your time.
Two questions: 1) how do I leave a tip for an extended stay so as to ensure that the housekeeping manager will be aware of its existence, so that he/she can distribute it fairly?
2) I confess to being surprised about your comment about the credit card guarantee. I understood that supplying a hotel with a CC ensured the hotel would get revenue, but I also assumed this meant that the room was considered sold - to me. Now that you tell me otherwise, does this practice confer any advantage at all to the customer over, say, other customers?
Minor point: beeday is spelt, 'bidet.' (easy way to remember: write the 'ee' sound the way it is in 'merci' and the 'ay' sound the way it is in 'croquet.')
[This message has been edited by simpleflyer (edited 08-08-2002).]</font>
In answer to your questions:
1) The best thing to do is contact the housekeeping manager directly and explain that you want the tips divided up. The manager should have a record of who cleaned which rooms on which days, and it should be no problem to distribute the tip accordingly.
2)I'm glad you've learned from this thread already!! Most hotels won't allow you to keep a reservation unless it is guaranteed by a credit card or a corporate account. Usually non-guaranteed reservations are automatically cancelled. Its the same as an airline reservation. United would never let you keep a reservation without a credit card right? Same thing.
Hope that helps, and thanks for the spelling correction. My french is not very good.
Happy to answer more questions from anyone, so keep 'em comin'!
Aug 9, 2002, 12:00 am
#56
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California, AA EXP,HH Gold,Hyatt Diamond, *wood PLT, Amex PLT,
Posts: 392
Hi
Love your posts and info and hope u don't mind yet another question. Do luxury hotels have any policy one way or another towards guests who book their special "low" promo rates. By "luxury" hotels I mean like the Palace in SF, St. Regis, etc. I guess, specifically I am thinking do these guests get assigned the worst rooms (and I believe every hotel has some)??? I am curious because I plan to stay at the Palace in SF and having gone thru a number of posts on FT Miles, it appears that their rooms vary quite a lot from fabulous (which I don't expect) to very small. I have booked thru their current special which is well below their normal rates. Sorry for this enormously long post, but your insights have been really helpful to a financially challenged CC instructor with a taste for the good life!
Love your posts and info and hope u don't mind yet another question. Do luxury hotels have any policy one way or another towards guests who book their special "low" promo rates. By "luxury" hotels I mean like the Palace in SF, St. Regis, etc. I guess, specifically I am thinking do these guests get assigned the worst rooms (and I believe every hotel has some)??? I am curious because I plan to stay at the Palace in SF and having gone thru a number of posts on FT Miles, it appears that their rooms vary quite a lot from fabulous (which I don't expect) to very small. I have booked thru their current special which is well below their normal rates. Sorry for this enormously long post, but your insights have been really helpful to a financially challenged CC instructor with a taste for the good life!
Aug 9, 2002, 12:49 am
#57
Used to be 'g_leyser'
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brandon Johnson International Airport (expect delays)
Programs: AA PlatPro, HH Gold, Bonvoy Gold, IHG Plat, Reno Air MEGA Platinum
Posts: 10,036
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kelly786:
Hi
Love your posts and info and hope u don't mind yet another question. Do luxury hotels have any policy one way or another towards guests who book their special "low" promo rates. By "luxury" hotels I mean like the Palace in SF, St. Regis, etc. I guess, specifically I am thinking do these guests get assigned the worst rooms (and I believe every hotel has some)??? I am curious because I plan to stay at the Palace in SF and having gone thru a number of posts on FT Miles, it appears that their rooms vary quite a lot from fabulous (which I don't expect) to very small. I have booked thru their current special which is well below their normal rates. Sorry for this enormously long post, but your insights have been really helpful to a financially challenged CC instructor with a taste for the good life!</font>
Hi
Love your posts and info and hope u don't mind yet another question. Do luxury hotels have any policy one way or another towards guests who book their special "low" promo rates. By "luxury" hotels I mean like the Palace in SF, St. Regis, etc. I guess, specifically I am thinking do these guests get assigned the worst rooms (and I believe every hotel has some)??? I am curious because I plan to stay at the Palace in SF and having gone thru a number of posts on FT Miles, it appears that their rooms vary quite a lot from fabulous (which I don't expect) to very small. I have booked thru their current special which is well below their normal rates. Sorry for this enormously long post, but your insights have been really helpful to a financially challenged CC instructor with a taste for the good life!</font>
A hotel shouldn't discriminate between rate types as far as who gets the "good" or "bad" rooms (and yes most hotels do have them). Usually if a hotel is offering special low rates its because they are not expecting to be very busy. I wouldn't expect an upgrade or anything, but you shouldn't expect to be booked into a room in the basement either.
The best thing to do is come prepared: try and find out which side of the hotel has the better view, or the better layout, even specific room numbers. I'm sure some FTers could help you. You can request this on your reservation, just like you can request a certain seat on an airplane. Hey, I just thought of a great idea: someone should make a website like seatguru.com, but for hotel rooms...Anyone got any extra programming time on their hands??
Anyways, I digress. I hope that helps, let me know how it goes.
Aug 9, 2002, 9:22 am
#58
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Posts: 9,996
Okay, I'll bite on your offer to answer hotel questions. Since you used to work at a five-star chain, this might sound heritical -- but do you think that luxury hotels are what people should generally stay at? In other words, assuming that I could afford to stay at any hotel I want to, is there enough added value in a luxury hotel to make it worth it?
I am self-employed. Thus, when I go to a conference or trade show, the cost of that hotel goes directly out of my profit for the year. (Sure, I can deduct it on Schedule C, but I still would much rather save the money in the first place.) When I am going to be in a place for a week or longer, I generally stay at an extended-stay property such as Homewood Suites by Hilton and do some of my own cooking. I rent a car to take me into the city from the (nearly always) suburban location of the extended-stay property and even after paying for parking at the convention center still save a bundle over convention hotel rates.
Even for city-center hotels, it seems to me that three-star hotels, such as an Embassy Suites, give more "bang for the buck" than luxury hotels. For example, many three star hotels now provide completely free local and WATS calls. Luxury hotels never do this. Many three star hotels offer a free breakfast and a mini fridge and microwave in the room. Luxury hotels typically only comp breakfast if you are an elite in their frequent guest program and there is no fridge or microwave -- only a "mini-bar" that charges "maxi-prices". Three star hotels usually have free use of exercise equipment and an indoor pool. Luxury hotels usually require you to pay to go to their spa, even if you just want to jog on a treadmill and then take a quick swim. And many luxury hotels have only an outdoor pool, particularly in warm weather areas. The pool is part of their landscaping, rather than something truly functional once winter comes. Lately, it seems like three-star hotels even have more cable channels.
So what I am not getting in a three star hotel? No turn-down service for the bed, but I can easily do that myself. No bathrobe, but is that really an essential item? I just simply get dressed before I open the door to get the paper or call for room service. A three-star hotel's room decor may not be as elaborate and there may not be a balcony, but if 80% of the time I am in the room I am asleep, then are imported French lace curtains really that significant? They don't help me sleep better.
Sure luxury hotels offer elegant meeting rooms, but if I am not going to use one, this is inconsequential. Luxury hotels may have a city's best restaurants, but if it is just myself eating, I usually don't want to eat at a truly fine restaurant -- I only want to do that when my wife is with me so we can experience it together. And if my wife is with me, we can go to the luxury hotel's restaurant even if we are not staying there.
The thing I absolutely HATE about luxury hotels is that they nearly always charge for parking -- many charge a higher daily rate than do airports. If I am paying $200 a night to stay at the hotel, the least the hotel could do is let me park my car there for free. Sure, the hotel may not have enough on-site parking for everyone, but isn't retrieving a car from a remote location what parking valets are for?
[This message has been edited by amanuensis (edited 08-10-2002).]
I am self-employed. Thus, when I go to a conference or trade show, the cost of that hotel goes directly out of my profit for the year. (Sure, I can deduct it on Schedule C, but I still would much rather save the money in the first place.) When I am going to be in a place for a week or longer, I generally stay at an extended-stay property such as Homewood Suites by Hilton and do some of my own cooking. I rent a car to take me into the city from the (nearly always) suburban location of the extended-stay property and even after paying for parking at the convention center still save a bundle over convention hotel rates.
Even for city-center hotels, it seems to me that three-star hotels, such as an Embassy Suites, give more "bang for the buck" than luxury hotels. For example, many three star hotels now provide completely free local and WATS calls. Luxury hotels never do this. Many three star hotels offer a free breakfast and a mini fridge and microwave in the room. Luxury hotels typically only comp breakfast if you are an elite in their frequent guest program and there is no fridge or microwave -- only a "mini-bar" that charges "maxi-prices". Three star hotels usually have free use of exercise equipment and an indoor pool. Luxury hotels usually require you to pay to go to their spa, even if you just want to jog on a treadmill and then take a quick swim. And many luxury hotels have only an outdoor pool, particularly in warm weather areas. The pool is part of their landscaping, rather than something truly functional once winter comes. Lately, it seems like three-star hotels even have more cable channels.
So what I am not getting in a three star hotel? No turn-down service for the bed, but I can easily do that myself. No bathrobe, but is that really an essential item? I just simply get dressed before I open the door to get the paper or call for room service. A three-star hotel's room decor may not be as elaborate and there may not be a balcony, but if 80% of the time I am in the room I am asleep, then are imported French lace curtains really that significant? They don't help me sleep better.
Sure luxury hotels offer elegant meeting rooms, but if I am not going to use one, this is inconsequential. Luxury hotels may have a city's best restaurants, but if it is just myself eating, I usually don't want to eat at a truly fine restaurant -- I only want to do that when my wife is with me so we can experience it together. And if my wife is with me, we can go to the luxury hotel's restaurant even if we are not staying there.
The thing I absolutely HATE about luxury hotels is that they nearly always charge for parking -- many charge a higher daily rate than do airports. If I am paying $200 a night to stay at the hotel, the least the hotel could do is let me park my car there for free. Sure, the hotel may not have enough on-site parking for everyone, but isn't retrieving a car from a remote location what parking valets are for?
[This message has been edited by amanuensis (edited 08-10-2002).]
Aug 9, 2002, 10:28 am
#59
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Programs: AA GLD, Marriott PLT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,900
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by amanuensis:
Okay, I'll bite on your offer to answer hotel questions. Since you used to work at a five-star chain, this might sound heritical -- but do you think that luxury hotels are what people should generally stay at? In other words, assuming that I could afford to stay at any hotel I want to, is there enough added value in a luxury hotel to make it worth it?
</font>
Okay, I'll bite on your offer to answer hotel questions. Since you used to work at a five-star chain, this might sound heritical -- but do you think that luxury hotels are what people should generally stay at? In other words, assuming that I could afford to stay at any hotel I want to, is there enough added value in a luxury hotel to make it worth it?
</font>
I started a thread about this with the exact same question in the Luxury Hotels forum. You might want to check it out.