Northworst
 

I've heard of and have seen Domestic Airlines charging for alcohol. I used to be outraged, and have come to accept it. I recently flew Northwest from Minneapolis/St. Paul to Baltimore. The flight was about three hours. I did not expect, nor desire any food. I found out though, that first class was getting food, no big deal in any way. However, meals were available to those in coach, FOR 10 DOLLARS!!

I don't fly anywhere near as much as the lot of you, but charging 10 dollars CASH in flight for a meal? This is ridiculous. Any opinions?

I find this to be an absolutely normal practice. I would rather pay extra and get an actually nice meal in coach (luckily I have not been in coach for a while now, but from the commentaries of friend flying coach and purchasing the food the food is quite good) then having no meal at all.

Most airlines have done away with service free meals in coach, and if thats what they have to do to survive, let it be it. Continental and Midwest Express are the only ones left outthere that would still serve some kind of snack to coach pax on the longer routes (not to count something mysterious in those AA BAAgs and Delta's SkyDeli), and after I saw the free "cheeseburger" CO offered I wished they would just offer something else for sale.

Overall i find the sale of meals in coach to be absolutely appropriate on flights under 4 hours.

PS By the way, Northwest IS my favourite US airline, and I consistantly find them to be more customer friendly when compared to competition.

[This message has been edited by asnovici (edited 08-04-2003).]

[This message has been edited by asnovici (edited 08-04-2003).]

I haven't seen this yet, but I'm looking forward to it. IMHO the payed meals HAVE to be better than what has come to be known as food on NW or any other US airline I have flown. International is another story.

Northwest, like several competitors, is experimenting with sales of meals in coach on certain flights. If you did not expect or desire a meal, then why get outraged at Northwest's sale of meals for $10? Don't like it? Don't pay! Would you rather have a $10 meal charge built into your ticket (e.g. a more expensive ticket by $10) for a lousy sandwich or the equivalent or be given the freedom to eat at the aiport, bring your own meal on the plane, or pay on board if the selection sounds appetizing? I'd chose the latter any day of the week.

[This message has been edited by cAAl (edited 08-04-2003).]

If you don't want the meal, just don't buy it. Most other airlines don't offer anything at all on this 2 hour flight, so having an option to buy something is better then not having any choice at all.

Hey, Spinzels are still free :-).

Sounds good to me. I'd love to buy real food as opposed to free airline "food" that is complete garbage.

I was on such a NW flight ex-MSP last week. The $10 dinner salad looked better than the FC meal I got.

As a young kid, I still find it a tacky practice. I mean stewards and stewardesses walking around taking cash for food. I guess i fly too much long haul. It just seems cheap and innapropriate. As for the meal, it was the same that first class got, except you had to pay for it. It's like charging to use a pair of headsets like USAir did when i used them alot in 1996!

I don't know maybe i am reading too much into it and looking into symbolism or something. But I think it is a sad sad trend.

Jamoldo,

I dont really see what symbolism you are seeing in this, but as you may know, absolutely all major airlines with IFE are charging for headsets now (anywhere from $2 to $5 depending on the airline).

I certainly dont mind paying for GOOD food in coach, rather then having a choice of:
A) nothing
B) saggy fat greenish burger or a mystery meat in a wrap

Longhaul services still have food, just as you mentioned, so its alright as far as I am concerned. I dont see anything tacky in FAs going around the cabin taking money for food, its a service that airlines elected to provide for a fee, and you have a choice to take it or leave it.

Happy Travels!

[This message has been edited by asnovici (edited 08-05-2003).]

Jamoldo,

I'm with you on this. I expect my ticket price to include any meals, so being asked to pay extra is taking liberties. It strikes me that the US carriers are increasingly acting like LCC's (paying for alcohol, IFE), but at not the low price. Do they want to drive people onto the LCC's?

But just as a note - not all major airlines charge for IFE - it's virtually unknown outside the US (well, except on charter flights).

Sure it would be great if they still served a hot meal on every flight but those days are gone forever! I like having the option of buying a meal on board. I don't like having to cram a stale sandwich from the newspaper stand into my briefcase (if I remember as I'm dashing for the flight, and if the deli isn't sold out)or I don't eat all day!

Now, if only they'd serve some decent wine to go with it... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Ginger K (edited 08-05-2003).]

Not UA.

Welcome to FlyerTalk, Jamoldo.

Say, if you're a young kid now, what were you in 1996, a toddler? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

Why are you so shocked that First Class gets free food and coach has the option of paying? It makes perfect sense to me.

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"Where's my money?" -- Pizza the Hutt

I'm not at all shocked or appalled that first class gets food or anything. that was not my point. after all first class passengers pay a hell of a lot more money or have more miles, so thats no big deal. i just think it looks extremely tacky when you pay 200 bucks for a plane ticket to sit in cramped quarters, get lackluster service, and then you see stewards/stewardesses collecting cash for food/ife like streethawkers in a big city who sell fake/stolen merchandise.. ok ok, thats pretty bad, more like the hot dog/beer guys at sporting events.

yes yes economics, ive studied some basics. airlines are in trouble, need to cut costs, services blah blah blah. prices dont go down, service does though. its sad. ua does not charge for ife from what i remember. its sad that in america we are putting up with substandard services. we arent the only ones suffering.

that being said, i would rather get mcdonalds or burger king and take it aboard. might as well use someone like southwest where people are still cheerful...

Amtrak doesn't give you free food in coach.

Greyhound doesn't give you free food.

Like you said, baseball stadiums don't give you free food.

The only reason airlines were giving free food in coach for such a long time is that competition on price was not allowed for a long time, so they had to compete on service. People were used to getting free food in coach, so the idea stuck around for a long time.

Now it's gone, so airlines have finally joined the ranks of other venues who sell you food. It's not tacky. It's normalcy, replacing a convoluted market created by years of government price regulation.

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"Where's my money?" -- Pizza the Hutt

There really never was "free food" and there still is no "free food" even for those of us lucky enough to get a 1class upgrade. Also, there are no free softdrinks, no "free" Spinzels. Everything the airline "gives" you has a cost which needs to be covered by revenue. The only issue is whether to bury the cost in the ticket price or bill for it separately and have to do all sorts of extra bookkeeping. I know I sound like the "beancounter" I was a generation ago, but tht's the way it is.

Also, there's no "free gift wrap" at the dept store and there's no "free catsup, pickles, mustard & onions" on your burger.

Given a choice, on a coach flight, I'd rather pay for my meal with my ticket. Whats' confusing, however, is what would NWA do with my coach meal $ when I'm GoldUpgraded to 1class and then get my "non-free" "free meal"? Sounds like more bookkeeping than it's worth!

(edited by DaDOKin DC)

Actually, Jamoldo, if you look back over the decades, prices have gone WAY down (taking into account inflation). Air travel used to be restricted pretty much to the upper-middle and upper class. One of the reason air travel service has gone down is that fares HAVE gone down, resulting in a dramatic increase in the number of passengers.

Now, why the airlines feel it is good economics to keep fares low and lose money is a whole 'nother story.


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Da DOK

Jamaldo, what do you expect for $200? You get a trans-con ride on a $30million+ aircraft, some pretzels, and all you can drink Pepsi. Like the previous poster said... no free food on greyhound, amtrack, etc. Heck, had you been served a meal, you'd probably be complaining how bad it was.

Airfares are still high. Flying is still a major luxury. For people like us , it really is no big deal, for others it takes a lot of saving to make one lousy trip. In the end, 200 dollars is a lot of money for the average American.

As for me complaining about Airline food, I dont really do it. If it is bad, I simply eat a little and let the rest go, but I am usually hungry enough to scarf it down, no joke. It was a complimentary service for many years which is now costing customers extra money because some bigwigs decided to mismanage the company and squeeze the most profit possible from an unstable industry that has little long term profit potential. When you make a service complimentary and then take it away, people are not happy. Greyhound NEVER served food. Its slow, inconvenient, but CHEAP. Amtrak is another story. Who is their competition? No one! But forget them, thats off topic.

My main beef is that services continue to dwindle while prices stay the same or rise. And it's even sadder that many defend such practices. I'm not saying I won't fly; I need to, but I certainly will not be loyal to any one airliner.

Hey I just think walking around and taking cash from pax on board looks tacky. That's how this whole thread originated. why not take orders for food at the gate or when checking in, say at least 30 minutes before takeoff? I know the meals they serve. It's all premade stuff from a vendor...

didn't finish..

take orders at the gate or when checking in.. collect money or payment then. cash, check or charge, instead of just cash. inflight, you get the food. no money hassel, nothing...

finit

I would like to agree with you regarding the need for "free" food on board, but the comment you made about airline prices is simply not correct. The prices have gone down considerably over the years, particulary so over the last decade. I think even 3 years ago it would be unthinkable to fly from BWI to LAX for $300, and now tickets are frequently popping up with prices in the $200 range.

I don't know about you, but I would rather pay less for airfare, and then buy a meal on board. Or, as you suggested, simply pick up some stuff from McDs on my way to the plane.

I remember a flight I was on as a kid. For some reason, there were no non-smoking seats left, so I was put in the smoking section. Ugh, cough, choke. The man next to me felt guilty and went to put his cigarette out. The old woman next to him said - oh, she should get used to it, it's healthy (or something similar) - and he continued smoking.

I'd rather have a foodless smokefree flight like we get today than what was available in the 1970s. One memorable thing I recall also is milk with ice cubes in it. And yes, the prices today are marvelous for the most part.

You clearly haven't looked around the bus station, I mean airport lately. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

IMHO this is completely backwards. From my perspective the prices have gone WAY down, and the service is somewhat improved overall, even though some small perks may have disapeared. I am much happier paying $400-$700 for a flight and add $10 for an edible meal, than pay the $600-$1000 I used to pay for the same flight, and eat TV dinners for no extra charge. I'll eat the spinzells & have a steak at my destination with the money I save. And this doesn't take into consideration how much more efficient the airlines have had to become. Lots more pax and flights(9/11 slump aside)without a big increase in delays or lost bags, They are obviously spending money in better ways than the "beef or chicken" we have come to expect.

Airlines are desperate for money, hence the lower prices. I have flown bwi-lax and bwi-sfo for less than 300 before 9/11. full fare prices on a major carrier are still the same, its just that we can priceline or orbitz the trip... things just aren't as cheap as we all think. Also remember that 3 years ago, our nation didn't have this level of unemployment, and that the economy was still pretty good. people were throwing money around.

i still stand by it, flying is a luxury. you have to look at it through an average person's eyes. (remember that an average person doesnt have the most education, doesnt make a ton of money, doesnt join frequent flier programs, doesn't use or the ability to use the internet 5 hours a day). sure its not as bad as it was back in the day, but flying is far from affordable for many. especially on a whim

It's really simple. People want low prices when they travel. Some people do a lot of traveling and will pay a bit more in return for a more comfortable seat.

The airlines response: low prices. Debundling what used to be included. Maintain a "first class" section with slightly more room for the people who pay a bit more overall in the customer-airline relationship.

Debundling food is a good idea. Everyone wins. You want it, you pay. You don't want it, you aren't paying for it. What could be simpler?

Sure, flying isn't affordable to many, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a luxury.

There is nothing that is affordable to everyone, unless it's free.

What is the point of this thread? The topic title says "Northworst" but has hardly anything to do with NW. Then you complain that the airlines don't give out free food on board anymore. Now you are complaining that air fares remain out of reach for many Americans.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/confused.gif

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"Where's my money?" -- Pizza the Hutt

We need more logic like this. This is so true.

If I have a 6,7,8,9,10,am flight I eat breakfast way before the flight.

If I have 11am, 12,1,2,3,pm flight I eat before I leave.

The same goes for evening flights and yes across the atlanic night flights.

I eat before. Makes sense. Make time to do it.

If I fly NW to FRA, will they serve NorthWurst? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif

The thread is titled as northworst because it obviously attracted everyone's attention. If it had been some boring title, then it would have had three responses and no one would have bothered to check it. It was that simple.

I think you are going way overboard. When i call flying a luxury, I am merely stating it, I am not complaining. I can fly much more if i want. Money is not a problem for me.

Northwest was singled out because it was the first airline i have flown where I have seen them charge for a meal, taking money during the flight in coach. I thought that this was an extremely tacky practice, that's all. I have not experienced this on USAirways, United, Delta, American or any other carrier or I would have called them on it.

this thread has obviously expanded into a conversation about other things, and thats fine, hey thats how conversations go, right??

you dont talk about the weather for 2 hours do you??? I hope not!! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

Will I get NorthWurst if I fly from Hot Springs AR to Dongola Sudan? (HOT-DOG) http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

FlyerTalk topics are not banner ads or junk mail. It is not necessary to "spin" your topic titles to get attention.

If your topic is boring, then it deserves to wither away after three responses. I don't think the topic of selling meals on board is boring.

Believe me, you will experience this same tacky sale on all the other major carriers (except Southwest).

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"Where's my money?" -- Pizza the Hutt

I have to say that I find this most disheartening. Oh well...

flying can be a lot cheper than the bus or train. This is especially true on transcons. Most of the people on this board are probally the exception that you are talking about.

Whenever cuts like these are made we hear from the crowd that says that we consumers were spoiled too much before or didn't have reason to expect what we had been getting. Or that we, in the spirit of community, should accept our share of belt-tightening in hard times.

I wish I could be so selfless and stoic, but I remember things like $100 change fees or $2,000 walk-up coast-to-coast RTs or Leo's bankruptcy-proof pension. And I ask myself, "Have THEY been acting like we're all in this together?"

After all, it takes trust and credibility to get people to believe your message and lead in hard times, and that's where I find the airline upper managements sorely lacking. Remember the fuel surcharge and how AA and others tried to hold onto it after the fuel price spike had passed? Or of trying to link charging for drinks internationally to improved meal service on some routes, though the improvements would be swept away in the next round of cuts but the charges kept?

These kinds of things erode trust and goodwill. Customers rightfully are skeptical or cynical about whether any savings will "trickle down" to them in lower fares, or just be pocketed (if there's one thing most companies are loath to do, it's pass along cost savings in the form of lower prices. Only vigorous competition can bring that about).

Airlines may well be able to force this latest round of cuts on customers by all doing it at once, but spare me the bit about need-for-sacrifice.

At least I have some form of support!