Laserjet

Asian (apart from Singaporean, Malaysian, Bruneian, Japanese and Korean) have been suffering for a long long time. It is time that they stand up and show some pride.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/030408/2/jit5.html

This applies to American too.

B747-437B

In the case of Indonesia, it is cheaper to get the visa at a consulate abroad (US$30) than to apply for one at entry now (US$50).

Also, the visa-on-arrival scheme is (and always has been) restricted to passengers arriving only at selected airports/seaports. Those entering by land or by sea have always had to obtain advance visas anyway.

I just got an Indonesian visa done at their consulate in BOM last week and it was about as quick and painless as you can imagine. Submitted it at 11am, paid the US$30 fee and collected it the next afternoon.

ozstamps

Aussies to face $84 Bali visa charge

Australians travelling to Indonesia, including Bali, will soon have to apply for a visa costing up to $US50 ($A84) under a presidential decision described by tour operators as "incomprehensible".

Without warning, Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri has instructed government departments to introduce a new short-term visa for reasons of "reciprocity and national security".

Under the new conditions, tourists will only be able to stay in Indonesia for 30 days, rather than the previous 60 days, and no extensions to their stay will be allowed.

The demand for visas will be imposed on 48 countries which previously had visa-free access to Indonesia, but which required Indonesian citizens to pay for a visa.

They include Australia and Japan, the countries with the highest number of tourist visitors to Bali, the most popular destination in Indonesia.

etc, etc

Introduced for "National Security" reasons? HUH?

The fact the 200+ dead tourists blown apart in the massive terrorist bombs at Kuta Beach were mostly Australian citizens should mean AUSTRALIA charges Indonesians $5,000 each to arrive HERE. Or at LEAST have us join the rest of other countries for whom no entry fee is levied - as a mark of recognition and respect for the loss of life losses suffered at the hands of the Indonesian terrorist madmen. (Which is true of most countries I fly to in Asia.)

These people making that decision are froot loops. Nearly the ENTIRE tourist visitor numbers to Bali are AUSTRALIANS. Why? Mainly because it is sold DIRT CHEAP to low budget travellers. It is the 'Cancun' of Australian holidaymakers.

After the terrorist murders the numbers from here dropped like a stone. Resort hotels there were empty - literally. An $84 visa is MORE than 10% of an airfare/hotel package, so ever less will now go. Talk about a dumb idea. Durrrrrrrhhhhhhhh.

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~ Glen ~

Come visit HERE the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!


[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 05-28-2003).]

Efrem

"Security" is the buzzword of the day. It is used as an excuse for many policies that have nothing to do with security.

For example, consider the requirement that the name in which a ticket was purchased must match that of the passenger. If an airline will sell Ms. X a ticket an hour before a flight leaves, and find this enough time to confirm that she is not a known threat, why will it not let me tell them a week earlier that she will use a ticket previously sold to me? That has nothing to do with security, though security is often cited as a reason. It is purely for revenue.

It's the same here. Indonesia wants your $$. Can't say I blame them, though using "security" as (even part of) the justification is absurd.

Doppy

This has nothing to do with security, it's all about reciprocity.

The US plans to fingerprint all visitors on visas, as well as take their pictures and hassle them in other ways. It will be interesting to see if other countries start requiring the same of Americans visiting, for the sake of reciprocity.

d

Law Lord

For a period ending on June 30, 1989, France required United States tourists to obtain visas before coming to France. France had been miffed that the USA required French visitors to obtain visas, so citing reciprocity as the reason, it required Americans to obtain French visas, making the process difficult.

Fair in theory, but it didn't work.

The result was that Americans stopped going to France. After complaints from French hotels and restaurants, the French government rescinded the requirement as of July 1, 1989.

The same thing will happen here: people from countries not on the "no-visa" list will go somewhere else to play. I predict that Indonesia will change its mind within six months.

Efrem

Chile has a similar policy. The fee for Yanks, Canadians and Australians (and perhaps others, forgive me if I left someone out) is whatever their country charges Chileans for a visa. You get a stamp and a piece of paper stapled to your passport. The entry permit is valid for the life of the passport.

I think the fee for U.S. citizens is $100 these days. (I got mine when it was $45.) I don't think it has stopped anyone from going to Chile, though I've seen it catch a few folks by surprise at the immigration desk.

A good case can be made that the average traveler affected by Chile's reciprocity fee can afford $100 (or whatever) far more easily than the average Chilean. Then again, the average Chilean doesn't travel overseas without financial support. The same probably applies to most of these Asian countries.

ozstamps

Yes Chile had gone up to $US100 for Americans when we were there late last year. A year earlier it was about $50 IIRC.

Also $US60 for ozzies and $50 Canadians or vice versa. They were the ONLY 3 passports affected.

Cash money in $US folding BEFORE you could pass thru immigration. Big sign saying pay now! I bluffed my way through with previous tax stamps in passport, but girls at booth declared I must pay again but I ignored them.

------------------
~ Glen ~

Come visit HERE the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!

dogcanyon

It definitely leaves a bad taste in your mouth. True, the US charges Chileans for visas, but at least there is some amount of work involved at the consulate in doing background checks and interviews before visas are issued. Contrast this with the Chilean approach where any warm body from the US with US$100 gets in instantly. The reason for the difference, of course, is that Chile doesn't have to worry much about US citizens staying on illegally and working while the reverse is not true.

ben1979

April 1st 2001, Czech Republic started requiring Canadians to have a entry visa. it was put in place only to reciprocate the visa requirment Canadian government imposed on Czechs earlier as a measure to curb the parachuting of Gypsies.

Internaut

My attitude towards getting into other countries (especially countries that want my tourist dollar) is simple enough. If I can go to the airport, buy a ticket (is this still possible in these times?), get on a plane and fly there with no formality up front then fair enough.

If the government of the country I'm entering wants $50 on arrival then fair enough. I hope they put the money to good use!

If the paranoid (and who can blame them) government of the country I'm entering wants to check my shoes, fingerprint me, take DNA samples etc on arrival then I don't care. It's their country so why should I care as long as I can get in and have reasonable freedom while I'm there.

Now, on the other hand, if a country that wants my tourist dollar has a complex visa application process involving me being without my passport for 2 weeks or more, then I'm not going to bother. Why should I have that hassle when there are plenty of really nice places in this world that'll let me in without much hassle (usually within an hour of getting off the plane; even in the less developed places). I think that takes us back to the Americans not going to France earlier in the thread and I think the Czech/Canadian thing is definitely a case of bullet in foot on the part of the Czech government. People with money to spend don't like having their lives made unnecessarily complicated. It's simple capitalism and the simple to get into countries will always win.

Exception to the above rule: I understand that Australia has a really simple online Visa application procedure. I've not had the opportunity to try it out yet, but that sounds fine by me.


Regards
I

ben1979

i took the my exgf to munich with the BA20 in january. we planned on taking a train to prague, so i look up the info to apply for the czech visa.

sent my apps and passport from san jose to the czech consulate in LA. $15 for FedEx, $15 for return FedEx, $50 for app fee.

3 days later I got the FedEx back. "all done??? that was quick", i thought (they said 7 days processing time). it turns out stupid me forgot to sign the bloody form. $30 down the tube

sign the form, resend the apps and passport. another $30. right after i sent it, the exgf calls me and tells me she didn't have enough time to apply. i emailed the consulate and they returned my passport unprocessed, along with the $50 app fee

no prague and i'm out $60. that's a decent amount of money for a poor student with a crap job like me


granted, the first time i was the idiot to blame, and the second was perhaps her fault, but still, had they not required a visa, i would not have had to skip out of work during the day, mail mail my app, get cashiers check from bank, and waste $60 on mailing the stuff back and forth.

i mean, the 2 day, 1 night we planned on being in prague wouldn't even cost that much

[This message has been edited by ben1979 (edited 05-29-2003).]

Laserjet

It is about time you Americans learn what 3rd world nations have been going through:
1. Travel at your own expense to Foreign Embassies across the country (who is stupid enough to build an embassy in your home town).

2. Pay Visa in advance for your application to be considered.

3. Arr at the Embassy at 6 am to join the queue

4. Harass by the interviewer at noon, and ask to return with a non-refunable rtn air-tickets, a finaicial bond, letter of custody from your wife, dig up your long loss birth cert (& have them translated to the destin country language, by certain destin lawer who charge a fee so high that it is obvious that the Embassy get a hafty commission).

5. Return to embassy after spending 3 nights at the nearest cheap motel, spend hundreds on long distance call + fax + babysit, etc. Rejoin the queue at 6 am.

6. The embassy decline your application. reason: interviewer does not satisfied that you will not overstay in the guest country. Worst of all, you cannot re-apply / appeal for the next 6 months. No cash back for your visa application fee. Sorry about the non-refunable air-tickets. If you wish to make a complain, there is a leaflet (re-photocopied so many times, it is bearly readable) giving a postal address (no e-mail, tel or fax) of a complain dept in the capital city of the guest country. You can be quite sure that the recipient is either a dust bin or a stamp collector.

B747-437B

If you think your experience was bad, try applying for a Czech tourist visa as an Indian citizen. The very polite response I received from them was "At this time we do not encourage tourism by citizens of India and will hence not issue visa for that purpose". Guess they REALLY don't want my tourist dollars!

[This message has been edited by B747-437B (edited 05-29-2003).]

B747-437B

Further to this, let me share with you an actual case concerning some family friends of mine who wanted to travel to Disneyworld this summer. The family consisted of a father, a mother, 2 teenage daughters and an 8 year old son. The family is extremely well off and fit the prototype for perfect tourists.

CASE I

US Visa

a) Visa appointment must be requested a minimum of 2 weeks in advance. You may request a range of dates, but not a specific date for "security reasons". This is highly inconvenient for people who work and need to arrange a day off.
b) Papers must be submitted for screening in advance together with bank drafts amounting to just over US$1000 for 5 travelers. This is a $100 application fee each, a $75 issuance fee (payable in advance) each, a $15 "security surcharge" each and a $10 "appointment booking fee".
c) Your appointment date is assigned no more than 72 hours in advance. Even though there is a specific time assigned for the appointment, you are warned that you may have to wait upto 8 hours before you are dealt with. You hence have to take the whole day off work, plus take the kids out of school, etc...
d) You show up at the US Consulate for the appointment. You are stripped of your watch, your belt, your shoelaces, your necktie and your eyeglasses. Only one clear plastic folder per person is allowed to carry your documents, not even a backpack, plastic bag or ladies purse.
e) You are made to stand in a waiting room with about 1 seat for every 10 people crammed in. No conversation is permitted and armed guards stand watch over you. If you speak to the guards, you must speak in English otherwise you will be removed for "security reasons". This may last upto 8 hours. Food and drink may be purchased from approved vendors at highly inflated rates (eg. Coke is Rs.10 from a vending machine but Rs.50 at the vendor).
f) You are finally summoned for your appointment. You are herded into an interrogation room with one-way bulletproof glass separating you from the visa officer. You cannot see them but they can see you and communicate through a microphone. They do not give their name for "security reasons". Papers may be passed through a slot in the glass.
g) Visas are approved for the father, mother and 2 daughters. The 8 year old boy however has "failed to show demonstrable ties" to the home country. His visa is refused. His bank draft for US$75 is returned in an envelope through the slot together with his passport. The other passports will be returned by mail. You are not permitted to question the decision. Security escorts you out where you can get dressed again.
h) A new appointment is scheduled for the 8 year old boy for 2 weeks later. He will be accompanied by the father for this appointment. Repeat steps (a) through (e).
i) At the appointment this time, the boy is questioned about "what assets he holds in India". The father attempts to answer but is told that they want the 8 year old to answer. The 8 year old has no idea what "assets" means. His visa is refused again. The visa officer tells the father that he should have placed some assets in the 8 year name to show sufficient ties to the home country.
j) The passport is returned, less another $100 application fee, $15 security fee and $10 appointment fee. Additionally, there is a letter that the 8 year old has been disbarred from entering the United States for 2 years from today. He may appeal this in writing to a PO Box somewhere, but no name is provided for "security reasons". The appeal process may take upto 18 months.
k) The family decides to go to EuroDisney instead. Total money wasted on US Visa application : US$1010

CASE II

French Visa

a) Go to the French Consulate on Monday-Friday, 9am to 1130am.
b) Take a number and wait your turn, usually about 30-45 minutes wait.
c) Submit papers to the visa officer at the window. Some questions are asked and documents verified.
d) Pay fees of Euro 38 each.
e) Collect passport next day between 2pm to 4pm. Total cost : Euro 190


You tell me which is a reasonable system? This is why US tourism is down 42% between 2000 and 2002 and is down over 70% from countries that require entry visas.