After the flight from hell.......
 

I was just interested in seeing how many other peole think that Business and First class on long haul flights is not the place for Children.

Yeah it may sound mean but after hearing 13 hours of..."Mum, I want the foot rest up, Mum I want the foot rest down, Mum I want the TV on, MUM why isn't there anything on TV etc.

Add that to the the 3 children constantly playing with the lights, the tray tables and the flight attendant having to come over several times during landing because they kept playing with the footrests.

I felt sorry for the Mum who was travelling solo with the three children and was trying hard to keep them under control but perhaps Economy is just a better place for kids. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

Well, this topic has come up before, of course, and I weigh in on no children in F or C unless they are very well-behaved. Otherwise, I believe parents should fly in coach.

This is the fine restaurant vs. McDonald's analogy, and that is what I would go by. Anything goes in McDonalds (of course parents should keep their kids from running wild anywhere, goes without saying) but not in a fine restaurant.

I agree with the 'no kids in first' philosophy and will do about anything to get upper deck Biz class. A mum with a wild yearling girl and tempermental 2 year old boy set my teeth on edge during a 3 hour flight. The yearling girl was boarded as a lap child, making all around her miserable including her mum and brother. She spent most of the flight on the floor. Even when the seat belt sign was on. Mother appeared to be helpless in the situation. No good for anyone.

Don't forget that many McDonalds also have play areas for kids.

Duct tape

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

King Herod had the right idea. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif

You guys would have loved my recent ORD-SMF flight on UA. Besides my own 7-year-old, there were a couple of babies and a toddler in F. I think the ratio between adults and kids was 1:1.

Surprisingly all (including the adults) were well behaved. The babies slept for most of the trip, the toddler played with a bag of toys his dad brought, and my son drew pictures (did a nice A-320 as a present for the flight crew which earned him a cockpit visit after arrival) and played with his Gameboy.

Prior to our trip, my son and I had a talk about the special nature of the front cabin and to be on his best behavior.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/thumbsup.gif

Not only should kids be banned from C & F, but Y should be split in 2 with a "family zone" at the back (preferably behind a bulkhead on larger planes). Duct tape and valium would in all likelihood still be necessary.

When my brother takes his two boys on long haul flights, they drug them up with antihistamines. And when they aren't in their drug induced comas, they have their game boys to occupy them. They are flying from Sydney to Vienna next week and my Sister in Law has it all worked out...she hopes http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

Before the flights she also talks to them about their behaviour on the plane. I think all parents shuld do this..no matter what class they fly in.

At least they have the good sense to only fly in Y. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

Is flying in coach a permission to behave worse than in first? I am not sure if a difference should be made. A plane is a public place, where we have to be very close people we don't know and thus all of us, adults too, should try put on our best behavior regardless of the class of travel. There is something wrong with the parents if they let their kids to annoy fellow passengers. Well, easy for me to say... no kids http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

The only airline, that I can remember now, where I have encountered badly behaving kids (and adults) is Lufthansa. (Sorry, German FTers)

For every airborne hellion who runs out of control and wrecks everyone's flight, there are probably ten who behave perfectly acceptably -- my own included.

What's more, I believe most flight attendants would rather have a well-behaved child in F than a rude, arrogant, platinum-card-carrying adult who complains, drinks too much, hits on the FAs, etc. None of my worst bad-pax stories involve children.

I think you will find most well behaved children feel the same negative way about moaning, drunk too much, status carrying adults who have forgotten what they were like in their formative years.

I have been told by my parents what I was like in my formative years which is exactly why the waited to take me on my first journey on a plane until I was old enough to act appropriately. We often traveled by car to many wonderful places. When they come to visit me now they are appalled by the number of people who feel compelled to travel to far away places with children too young (under 5) to even understand where they are going, dragging along a dozen carry-on bags, strollers, and child seats. Understandably, these children become difficult to travel with since they would probably rather be home with their friends and toys. I remember a recent FlyerTalk post (which I can't find now) where a poster stated that he is "anxious" to take his 2 year old to Hawaii. I'm not too sure how anxious the child will be. I think with most of these trips it's the PARENTS who are anxious to travel regardless of its affects on their children or those stuck around them. But sometimes it only takes one trip for parents to say, "We'll never do THAT again." Unfortunately, I was sitting in front of them for the one trip they did take, and that was in first class.

Do you mean King Solomon? Or was there another child story with King Herod?

I would hope most adults feel the same way.

So much depends on the atitude of the parents. If they believe that proper behavior is important and work with their children on that, it shows.

the same parents who believe that they are entitled to behave boorishly seem to have children who act as they do. Go figure.

I'm sorry for your bad experience bayotter, but please don't lump all children into the same category. My boys have both been flying internationally since they were 5 months old and, if anything, I believe this makes them better travellers. Travelling to them is normal and I am thankful for that, as half of their family live on the other side of the world, a 14 hour flight away. It always amuses me when receive compliments on our boys' behaviour at the end of flights as they're often the same people who glared at us as we boarded http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

[Edited to correct typo]


[This message has been edited by JodieD (edited 06-20-2003).]

King Herod wanted to slay all the first born in Judaiea or something like that.

Sorry for my gash explanation I bet its pretty wrong but I found the decision of going to Religious Education classes or sleeping in and easy choice to make.

Unless there are legitimate allergies/sinus problems, your brother should be charged with child abuse.

Interact with your kids. Read to them. Bring snacks, games, toys.
Don't drug them.

I dont have any children yet, but when I do I will not hesitant for an instant to fly in F or J with them should I choose too.Of course it goes without saying that the children should be very much aware of the space around them and behave accordingly.

Maybe it would help for some people to remember that all they are paying for anywhere on the plane is their seat, NOT the cabin. If you want some sort of control over who should sit in the same cabin with you, I'm afraid you'll have to look into something like...www.netjets.com http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif

I share the concerns expressed about behavior on a flight -- in any class of service. But I extend my remarks to the behavior of adults as well as children.

I chuckle at those of you who feel that FC is your own exclusive domain or feifdom which should be devoid of children. Who's next on your list? A poorly-dressed passenger or someone with a bad hairdo? Or how about that lady who keeps coughing in seat 3C?

I've flown FC both as a paying customer and as an FF awards passenger. In any case, I paid my dues and I'm not going to apologize to anyone if I take my kid with me.

On the other hand, I expect my son to behave appropriately under all circumstances, both to meet my expectations and as a measure of respect towards others. I can't say that I've seen all parents demand this of their kids, and this is indeed unfortunate. Then again, I've seen some pretty ignorant behavior from adults over the years as well.

I agree with the poster who questions how one can equate coach with a lesser standard of behavior. Bottom line is that each of us is responsible for our own behavior.

To you contrite FC elitists let me say only that it may be me and my kid to whom you direct your sneers and disdain when you see us sitting in FC. And we could care less what you think. Just behave yourself during the flight and everything will be just fine.

I'm curious as to how many of you who think the parents need to "control their children" would rather spend 13 hours hearing mommy yell at the kids. Kids and adults have good and bad days. And its not like mommy could decide to get off the plane halfway through the flight because baby was teething or tired or whatever.

Perhaps if y'all had taken 5 minutes to engage the children in some conversation or a card game the flight would have been more pleasant for everyone and they (as well as you) may have learned a little something about good behavior.

A few weeks ago, I flew LAX-HNL in F. Yeah, not *really* long haul, but it was a long flight for me. Two entire rows of the plane were taken up by a few families with kids. They were all together. Kids were making some noise, but the biggest issue was all the moving around by the kids *and* adults. In reality, the adults were the larger problem. They would stand in the aisles, talking to their friends. Big deal, right?? Well, it made it difficult/impossible to see the video screen for the people (including me) in the two rows behind them.

Well said, md.
http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

Bravo! Great idea!!!

are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet?

I don't mind well behaved kids. I had no choice but to be well behaved in public even if there was nothing to do. My parents wouldn't stand for anything less. It's a matter of upbringing. Yes there is the odd case of ADD or something similar but not all of the population that claims it. Parents should also be careful what they feed their kids before flying and during flight. Sure, little Johnny have a Coke and a candy bar we're on vacation http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

Manners that begin at home often continue outside the home regardless of the setting.

I have found many children in business/first act more adult than some of the adults there... I believe children have every right to any seat on the plane as long as it is paid for/earned.

William

Excuse me..I think I said they gave them antihistamines which are over the counter ones..not valium.

You try taking your kids on a flight from Sydney to Vienna, which is approximately 20 hours, and then perhaps it won't seem such an act of child abuse to you.

What is better for the kids...to get some decent sleep on a plane or to be jetlagged for several days after they arrive?

In case you missed the part where I said they also took games I will say it again..they also take game boys etc for them.

How dare you even insinuate child abuse.

Let's keep cool...nobody's "accused" anyone of anything. Take a deep breath and let's continue having fun and learning in this thread

--richard, moderator

An anxiolytic was given to a child by a NW FA a while back...he is now in jail.
As far as antihistamines are concerned, one should be very careful. They often interact with other drugs, such as antibiotics, and can have disastrous adverse reactions. In addition, the risk of inappropriate dosing, paradoxical reactions (child goes wild rather than sleepy) are good enoung reasons not to recommend their use in planes for the purpose of sedation.
I suggest a quick trip to the library were many books have tons of ideas on how to deal with children while travelling (plane, car or trains).
No need to abuse with drugs...

I can't believe that I am going to contribute in part to what will likely (but hopefully not) close a thread but

Sounds like an accusation to me.

My feeling is go for it. The other people on the plane have the right to some peace and quiet as well. If the parents think that this will help calm their child and help them sleep so they aren't tired, restless and cranky then I think they should be commended for the forethought. Not everyone can sleep on airplanes and keeping a child awake for a 20 hour trip could also be considered cruel.

I seriously doubt they plan on giving their kids an overdose. Bringing their game boys also shows forethought as to entertaining the kids when they are awake.

We will all differ in our approach to parenting and that's totally fine. It doesn't sound to me like anyone is saying that people should have to drug their kids when they fly. These parents are making a rational thought out decision based on how they know their children will react to this trip.

edited to add: after reading fromYXU's post I would ask with full respect, how about something different like gravol which is used for motion sickness and has the side effect of drowsiness? My parents always gave it to me in the car and boats and planes becasue I did get motion sickness.

[This message has been edited by cattle (edited 06-20-2003).]

No need to make accusations. Looks like self-incrimination to me: (emphasis added)

Book 'em! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/mad.gif

Remind me to never take artistic license in a thread you are going to read http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif

My seatmate from DUB-ATL the other day performed 'Ruth and Hughies' the entire flight... Poor little guy was only about age 10 and apologized profusely. I gathered barfbags for him from all the neighbors and rubbed his back while telling him we're almost there...!

His Dad and Sister were in the seats in front of us... Dad had his hands full...hoboy!

Moral of story....ain't life grand -- sometimes!

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/thumbsup.gif very nice thing to do. Doesn't sound like a troublemaker, just not feeling well and embaressed. Poor guy http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/frown.gif Glad he had such nice people on board to look after him. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

That can happen at any age.

There was a young boy on one of my flights from SYD to LAX doing the same thing. Poor little thing. I felt so sorry for him. It was his first trip on a plane and he was so excited.

And yep..it can happen to anyone.