What is wrong with Americans?
 

I just read that some airline flights have more cancellations than passengers. Have we become such a bunch of whiney self-centered wimps that we're afraid to fly?

What has happened to the thousands of US flights taking off since the Iraq war? Nothing! And even if one gets (god forbid) blown out of the sky, getting on a plane the next day will still be vastly a more safer venture than getting in your car to go to drive across town!

Have to agree. The idea of cancelling a flight for worry of war while seemingly rational just isn't going to be why i might fly less. Give me a reason and available time and I'm anywhere in the world. Granted, I might spend more time swiveling my head around but certainly going to go.


P.S. csb, you might want to update your email address on file with FT. I sent you notice that i moved your post here and it bounced back....

I think most people are very timid.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Randy Petersen:
Granted, I might spend more time swiveling my head around but certainly going to go.


We planned our first trip to Europe (going mid April) almost a year ago. While we may be a little un-easy, we are definately going! Rome for 3 days then a 12 day cruise ending up in London and spending 2 days there before returning home.

I never worry about flying.

I worry every day driving to work on the LA freeways.

This is probably the wrong place to ask. I doubt you'll find many folks here who've canceled their travel plans.

Right you are Wingless. Other than the current death toll in Iraq, Los Angeles County has far more killings than any country in the middle east.

The fact that American's are afraid to go to the middle east is almost laughably ignorant. Yet it's very unfunny that nearly every American I talk to is convinced that the middle east is dangerous.

twcrossroads.com had some travel agents discussing a cancelled trip for senior cheerleaders in the Dallas area. Seems the superintendant cancelled because of terrorism fears. They were going to that notorious hot-bed of terrorist activity- Corpus Christi.

Ok, you have shamed me into going to the Bahamas the first week in May. I shall tell my husband and friends (flying in from the UK) that we now MUST go as I don't want to be considered a wimp by my FlyerTalk friends. It's tough having to do this but I shall shoulder the burden and try not to get a sunburn. But if I do get a sunburn it's all your fault. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

And just to show I'm no scaredy-cat we will fly American.
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Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.

[This message has been edited by MoreMilesPlease (edited 03-28-2003).]

To respond on a serious level, I believe we have a whole generation of wimps. We have a generation of citizens who have had their parents try to make life wonderful for them. Thus they are not aware of the sacrifices the generation before them made in order to provide that. They protest every military action and do not realize the consequences their children will pay for their unwillingness to take chances and to be brave in order to protect and provide for the future. The fear of flying is only the most minute part of it but symbolic of the cowardice that prevails in every aspect of our lives. Sorry to sound so pessimistic but it's what I see.

Cancel and lose out on miles? BLASPHEMY!

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif



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Couldn't agree more. I came over here right after booking BOS-LHR-BOS for next week on aa.com.

As a European, I'm fascinated by this train of conversation.
In no way are Americans wimps. Witness the 200k troops currently in the Middle East. However, there are obviously issues surrounding willingness to fly.
My big concern is that as people decide not to fly....airlines go out of business..and when they decide that they DO want to fly, prices are increased and destinations are reduced, making the practicality of travel a self-fulfiling prophesy.
IMHO the decision not to fly at the moment is not bourne out of rational judgement. I can understand it, but only on an emothional level.
Obviously 9/11 has shown us that bad things happen to innocent people on regular flights and on the ground.
However, looking at pure statistics, the chances of a similar thing happening again are tiny. Do the people who are not flying, also avoid going into high-rise buildings?
I believe that the world is not even "less safe" than it was before....it is just that we are more aware of the threats to us.
There are two sorts of life that people can lead:
1) Avoid all risks
2) Cautious - be aware that risks are everywhere, but lead life as you want to live it.
I ride a motorcycle - something that is more likely to lead to my demise than anything else that I do. However, the pleasure that it brings me, outweighs the danger that I know it brings to me.
Travel is exactly the same. Evaluate it rationally together with the pleasure or fulfilment that it brings to you.

The ability to travel the world cheaply and easily is a real gift to our generation. In the next 2 months, I will be traveling to Russia, Vegas and France (on holiday), and possibly Japan (on business). There is no way that I would let the current world order interfere with my plans.

Some flyers must of spent their disposible income on duck tape.

A lot of it is the "panic" mentality which I blame on the media - everything is "breaking news". There is even "breaking news" now that you have to wait for the commercial. Just a couple days ago I couldn't believe "Breaking news - an X happened @ Y" - details after this break". Pleeeeeeez. Regardless of what you think about Michael Moore or Bowling for Columbine, the point he makes regarding the above mentality is very true. Hordes of people across the country running out to buy duct tape?

I don't think we are inherently that stupid, just grossly uneducated. As far as myself, many months ago I decided that 2003 was going to be a year of spending miles and points, and saving some $. I am as likely to go to the middle east now as I was a year ago - 0%. I have no desire to go to Europe now, and I don't know if world events have any impact on this, but I'm sure if I run out of tea, London would be on the itinerary shortly....

Huh? I'm a veteran, and not changing any of my flight plans, but I disagree with the war. I don't understand what you're trying to say, Mary.

I think what I'm trying to say is that we have a generation of people who are very concerned with keeping the status quo, with business as usual, who really don't want to see anything that would force them to have to give up anything or change anything in their lives. Disagreeing with A war is one thing. But I believe, and it is only my humble opinion as they say, that short of a full blown attack on our soil, most young americans today are not willing to fight for anything! Noone can stand to see anything unpleasant or painful, and unfortunately, the reality of life is that there is much all over the world that is terrible and idealism is not going to make it better. Protests don't make it better. I think at some point Americans have to be willing to fight for change and a good many of them are too busy fighting to not have to fight! (hope that made the sense it was meant to). Perhaps what I'm trying to say is that unfortunately, sometimes the end justifies the means.

I hardly think this is an American trait either. Qantas just lost a lot of bookings because of the SARS sacre, I read. When German tourists to Florida with rental cars were being targeted, Germans stopped visiting Florida. And didn't bookings to the US from all over fall in the wake of 9/11?

Some people find life fearful; some people don't. Little to do with heritage.

I wish that more people were like all of you on here. I am a Flight Attendant and the loads have dropped right off. My job is also dropping off, I'm getting laid off on April 1st due to how passengers have reacted to this war. Hopefully it will be short lived. I saw the same thing after 9/11 and it didn't seem to take all that long to bounce back. Keep Flying, it's the safest way to go!!!!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

I see a few reasons why people would consider cancelling trips

1- They were travelling to areas of unrest ( travel to some Muslim countries)

2- They are concerned about airlines cutting routes on them while they are abroad (look at the recent announcements by UA)

3- They're older and they don't like any kind of uncertainty.



[This message has been edited by Droneklax (edited 03-28-2003).]

4) check-in procedures for air travel to/from/in the U.S.A (and immigration to the USA) became even more time-consuming and is really nothing to enjoy anymore.

Most of them can't carry a tune.

If turning airports into military-style prison camps won't keep the international travelers away,
maybe showing the World our arrogance and contempt for diplomacy will?
That failed. The diplomacy part that is - the arrogance and contempt worked all too well.
But some people probably have to come here on business, so bush launches 'invades for crusades' to give an image of 'hate American products'; now, business will have knowone to trade and no travelers to come make trade. Of course, many corporations get profits from 3rd-World exploitation; after Iraq, it can be used as a model - to rise up against the U.S., and win.

Have $$$ to sell...cheap!

bushler has run our country into the ground in only 2 years, but it is going to take 50 years to repair the damage.

bushy times are hoovering over us.

The American Public has been filled with 'wimps' for some time. This 'wimps' or mindless masses have affected airline travel in many ways,

First:
The US has been filled with unrationally paranoid wimps for many years. All the 'Joe Vacationers' who are so afraid to fly that the government created the TSA to placate them.

Oh my we can't let you take that 2 inch pen knife on the plane but the 6 inch Mont Blanc fountain pen that can be driven through a board is perfectly alright. The mindless masses, however, are appeased.

The risk of a plane being flown into a building is not lessened by the TSA and the advanced (read "ridiculusly ineffective")security. It was lessened as soon as word got out that idiots were flying planes into buildings. Even the hijackers on 9/11 knew that. But 'Joe Vacation' stays scared. So now they want us to check in 2 hours in advance to ensure I get through their 'insecurity checks'.

Second:
Many companies have stopped most routine travel. Was this a response to terrorist threats? No, this was in response to an economic reality. The economy crashed in the last year of the "Clinton" administration not Bushleagues fault but he gets the blame anyway. Not really Teflon Willies fault either. This again can be blamed on the mindless masses who overbought in a panic for Y2K and Overbought internet stocks on fear of being left behind.

Other rants left out as I was getting mindless. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

Let's face it, the media only shows newsworthy (death and destruction) stuff, and so our perceptions are biased and are always raised to panic proportions. When I lived in England in the early '80's, a friend from Lebanon could not believe that anyone could live in L.A. with all the daily gang killings. He was seeing a bloodbath on T.V., when in fact most people go about their lives in statistical safety. Whenever there is an earthquake, viewers assume that the entire city lies in ruins because the same flattened apartment building is shown over and over.

I have two trips to Hawaii and one planned for Eastern Europe this year, no way am I cancelling.I am not wimping out! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

I refuse to stop living my life just because of some terrorist threat or because a part of the world is at war. I will not stop flying.

I'm betting that more of this lack of travel has more to do with a lack of money. For the airline indusrty, it is the perfect storm.

marysunshine and tcjack, you are right on.

This country is filled with wimps. The Greatest Generation that Mr. Brokaw wrote of must be seriously ashamed of us. They saved the world and our country for us, and we're doing our darnedest to piss it away.

I personally ascribe it to the hippies of the 60's. All the crap started then, and now it's their kids and grandkids who continue the legacy of failure and stupidity.

Having said that, it's still the greatest nation on earth. It just currently has much room for improvement.

Oh, and I haven't stopped flying. Ain't skeered. Not flying as much as last year, but that's only due to doing enough trips this year to keep silver...qualified for gold last year. I bought my next trip the day NW announced the 4,900 layoffs. I went to AMS a month before the war, heard exactly zero anti-American sentiments.

Since almost all of my travel is leisure, I have a few other things to pay off, like a car and a house, before I can truly travel as much as I want.

But the war won't stop me. I'm safer in a jet than my in my truck.

IMO I thought the point being made by Mary was that too many children were essentially raised in an environment where they were not given the tools to make viable decsisions.
I am a vet who became an anti-Vietnam War vet.
My father fought in ww2 and korea and also thought Vietnam was a bit crazy or over the top.
I lived in the Haight-Ashbury for awhile and was described by the media as a hippie.
My son joined me on peace marches.
Having raised my son to make his own decisions I support his decision to join the Army.
He is now serving in a mechanized infantry unit 2km from the dmz in korea and has been there for the last 17 months.
He is now trying to qualify for military language school and learn arabic. Although my sister would never ever consider herself to have been a hippie her daughter is a Captain in the Ohio National Guard who was called up a couple of months ago.

[This message has been edited by magic111 (edited 03-29-2003).]

Isn't that a little simplistic. After all many of the revered "Greatest Generation" came back to America to lynch black people and stand in school doorways with axes, and many former hippies went on to successful careers in government, business and academia.

I believe that you're trying to cram this issue into a partisan political framework that pleases you. It might interest you to know that many--though not all--of the most narcissistic, I'm too precious to risk flying people that I've talked to are middle-class, suburban Republicans.

In the world of high speed internet, video cams, video conferencing, webex's, there just haven't been as much desire to travel when telecommuting gets the job done almost as well.

I've saved myself several trips to Europe thanks to virtual video conferences.

SAVED YOURSELF several trips to Europe?! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/eek.gif

Yup. I'm very very travel weary.

I have temporarily postponed my trip to Hong Kong, but it definitely had nothing to do with the war. I was, however, concerned about that virus that's going around over there - especially knowing that they are pulling people off airplanes and throwing them into quarrantine. Other than that, I will still fly whenever I feel the need and I refuse to let some extremist get the best of me!

- cheapo

Jailer's very accurate observation is similar to my theory about crime and local news. If there are 100 violent crimes on a given day in New York City, the 3 or 4 most serious or significant get on the news during the 10 minutes or so (usually the first 10 minutes) devoted to local crime news. Then if, over time, violent crime decreases by 90%, 3 or 4 of the 10 or so crimes left still make the news. The result is that people, who are not very interested in statistics, still for the most part think the City is a very dangerous place, if their perspective is the "evil box" http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif. If their perspective is personal knowledge of victims, let's say that 15 years ago I might have known personally 1 person per year who was a victim of a mugging, and now I know zero. What does that reasonably tell anyone about the risk of violent crime?> Absolutely nothing! The sample is far too small to be meaningful, yet most people base their perceptions either on personal experience or their view of the world through the Box. Neither is particularly useful.

The plain fact is that my neighborhood in Manhattan has about the same crime rate as Peoria. I doubt that many people living outside of New York City understand that.

agreed.

A friend who is a travel agent stated that she has cancelled 20% of her "spring break" trips.