What constitutes "arrival time" of a flight
 

A flight is scheduled to arrive at say 10.00. What does that actually mean?

- Touchdown time on the runway ?
- Come to a stand at the gate ?
- Passengers allowed to disembark ?

We all know a great deal of time can elapse between each of these stages. There must be an official rule because there are formal statistics on punctuality published.

I always thought stopping at the gate was the measure but notice airport "actual arrival" boards are tending to show touchdown time. Makes more flights appear to be on time than is the case.

From the Bureau of Transportation Statistics site:

As I understand it, it should technically be "chocks under", just as departure time should technically be "chocks away". Most of the time this is now done automatically by the aircraft, but there are occasionally some grumbles about some airlines which have historically used manual reporting by the flight crew who are, of course, very aware of their airline's reputation for timeliness.

Thanks Terenz. Is there a definition of what "arrived at the gate" mean? For example I've waited over half an hour stopped at the gate for the airbridge to be connected, and also held on board because customs was completely full up. And what about flights that disembark out in the field, with a bus in to the gate?

My hunch is it means "aircraft engines shut down".

I suspect arrival time is when the a/c comes to a stop (and as you say, engines shut down) where pax can disembark. If there's a customs holdup (arriving at AA's JFK terminal before 6am), or if the jetway is broken or there's not one to run it. it's not the airline's fault.

I've heard that the departure punctuality time can be measured by some 4 measures, chosen by the airlines.

Well, actually, the jetbridges are generally operated by the airline employees, so if there's no one there to run it, it is the airline's fault, just as much as if there was nobody there to fly the plane...

Dan

(edited for UBB coding)


[This message has been edited by danM (edited 12-17-2002).]

When the aircraft comes to a stop at the arrival gate.

Arrival time is when the parking brake is set by the flt crew (prior to jetway being connected, just after aircraft stops moving and is chocked by the ramper).

Departure time is when the parking brake is released.

Notice all times are dependent on the parking brake -- this is significant since one can release the parking brake and depress the normal brakes (just like on a car) without the aircraft moving to get an out time. Once released, the parking brake can even be reset without changing the previously reported time. Few flight crews are willing to do this, since there is a slight chance the aircraft will move in the process (an FAA violation) and do to the fact that its simply unethical.

joe

You are describing how ACARS determines block in/out times. The actual definition of block out/in times (departure/arrival times) is based on when the aircraft first moves before a flight/stops following a flight.

The difference between the two should be no more than a couple of seconds unless the crew is intentionally trying to change the block time.

[This message has been edited by LarryJ (edited 12-18-2002).]

At the gate, plane http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif and simple.

My final answer is based on meeting thousands of flights at various airports during the last twenty-one years in the limousine business.

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Never ask a question that you don't want to know the answer.

This sounds pretty much like the same time a pilot would use to actually log his or her flight time. It pretty much meets the FAA defintion of flight time. But I could see slight difference when a tug is used to push a plane out of gate.

The official time starts when the aircraft first moves. Doesn't matter if it pushes back, powers out or powers back.

With an ACARS airplane the procedure would be to release the parking break just as you give the ground team clearance to start the push.

[This message has been edited by LarryJ (edited 12-19-2002).]

I'll go double check my FAA regs for flight time. I understood that it started when the plane moved under its own power with the intention of flight.

Everyone is correct. The main problem with looking at on time performance is each airline use a different criteria to determine when the aircraft has arrived so when you look at the numbers, you are not comparing apples to apples.

Airlines use one of the following to log the arrival of their flight:
1)Parking brake set.
2)Main cabin door is opened.
3)Main engines turned off.

There might be others. . .

Even within the same airline company you can have differences. American Eagle FA's get upset when the ground crew is worked by AA mainline. Eagle crews go off the clock once the main door is opened but the ground crew do not want the passengers getting off until they have off loaded all of the checked carry on. I have heard fights between the two when the ground agent tells the FA to keep the passengers on board.

FWIW, whenever one checks FLIFO (flight info) for a trip via a reservation system, four times are recorded:

OUT - time OUT of the gate
OFF - time OFF the ground
ON - time ON the ground (touchdown)
IN - time IN the gate

It is my understanding that the time IN/OUT is recorded (at least in SABRE) automatically (as mentioned previously) when the brakes are applied/released.