The valets we deal with charge $4.50 a car...way to much...they also charge the restaurant $1000 a month for the service. I usually tip no more to a valet than I would at a car wash...$1

To answer your question, yes they do expect a tip. But something which very few people are aware is, the valets rarely if ever get to keep this money...
a fact i was frankly shocked to learn.

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Just My 2¢

Help me out here ... why would they expect a tip if they don't get to keep it? And who does it go to? I'm having a hard time grasping that a valet given a tip would hand it over to someone else. Seems all the more reason to never tip a valet.

I must disagree. The whole point of this discussion is that underpaying demonstrates greed. Restaurants in the USA want to be able to advertise low prices and shame customers into paying extra in the form of tips, rather than paying their workers properly in the first place.

Unfortunately, instead of the US governments at various levels cracking down on this type of disgraceful attitude towards adding charges to advertised prices, they tend to perpetuate it themselves by having all manner of taxes and allowing those also to be added to bills.

Any country with decent consumer protection laws forces advertised prices to be inclusive of all taxes and charges, so that the consumer gets to pay exactly what is quoted. In the US, where the businesses pay the government to ignore customer issues as much as possible, hotels get to advertise $99 rooms that might actually cost $130 with taxes and tips, restaurants get to advertise $50 meals that will actually cost $65 and so on. In other places, this omission of necessary or expected charges would be called fraud.

The worst thing about the tipping issue is that it's accepted as a percentage in so many cases and thus is usually totally unrepresentative of the service received.

If I order a $10 meal or a $40 meal and the server does the same amount of work, why does the one in the latter case deserve 4 times the tip? If a waiter is serving 10 tables in an hour and getting $10 per table, they are getting an amazing $100/hour for unskilled work. Meanwhile, a waiter who is just as deserving but works in a cheap joint may only have 1 table an hour and get a $2 tip.

There are ways that tipping can work fairly, but paying out a standardised 15% (or any other particular percentage) is just absurd.

I agree with your first part. I can't really add anything except it can indeed be appalling, the practice of tipping. Recognizing that, it's a shame that's what's expected, but it is, so I tip. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/frown.gif (NOTE: I).

But as to the $10 v. $40 waiter, in my book, the tip is based upon the amount of the meal, not after that, as in "but, both waiters did the same amount of work." I'm not harsh, but this isn't my problem to address - I happen to know career waiters who take their jobs seriously, professionally, and are expected to manage in a pinch, fill in when others are sick (try getting your 9-5 people to assume the responsibilities of people out sick for a day), and in $40 restaurants, they are expected to have polish, knowledge of wines (if there's no sommelier), timing (in order not to rush diners), command of English, personal skills, etc. The wait jobs at $40 restaurants are harder to get, and so you are paying a larger tip to someone who is probably better at what they do. There are waiters at the steakhouses in New York who make a lot of money, work there forever, and retire comfortably. Ditto the places like Lutece, etc. If you have been there (I have been to some nice places), you know the service is typically SO superior (though there are indeed exceptions), and you can say WHY it is superior, so to make a long story short, they make more because they've earned it. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

Kremmen, you took the words out of my mouth. For me it is still difficult to get used to these practices, even after living in the US for some time now.

They expect it, because most people tip them. And you are right in the logic that if they don't get to keep the tip you shouldnt tip them. If i go to a restaurant that uses the same company we use, I don't leave a tip.

If it is just a single valet parking the cars, then I do tip, because I know that they will keep it.

There are different services, sometimes it is a single valet, not working for a company, but just doing it themselves. Or it is a single valet, who rents the spot from a company. In both these cases they keep the tip.

The reason I keep it to a dollar, is that, although I am more informed than most customers, I still have no way of knowing where it is going.

Have any of you seen Farris Beuller's Day Off?

I had the opportunity to work in a high end resturant when I was younger and can attest to the fact that there are plenty of people who treat the job as a vocation, even an art. There is a considerable amount of skill involved and allot of behind the scenes preparation. Given this I usually find it completely unacceptable when I receive bad service in a high end restaurant and while I will not stiff the waiter for anything other than abominable service/attitude (if it is his fault rather than the kitchen's) I will always let the manager know of any service that is out of the usual range, good or bad.

I too get peeved by Hotels that wait until after you check in to bring up a crib or rollaway depsite the fact that it has specifically been requested in the reservation. After a long flight no one wants to wait an hour while the skeleton housekeeping staff searches the hotel for a crib at 10PM.

In meals where we just get a bottle or two of wine, no matter how expensive, I tip on the total. When I take friends out and we end up with 4-10 bottles that can range up to $350 each (that is about my limit and I rarely go there, most recently it was for an amazing Corton Charlemange at La Pinnsionare along the banks of the St Lawrence in Quebec, highly recommend for both food and wine) I will tip on food and add $10-20 extra per bottle of wine depending on service and price (this is because I almost always choose the wine myself). When there is a bonafide sommelier in the establishment, and I mean someone who actually knows something about wine (and I don't mean that they have justed tatsed the wine before and that is the extent of their knowledge) I take full advantage and love to hear a really knowledgable one talk and I encourage them to take me on whatever adventure their cellar can offer. For those gems I will tip allot but such experts are rare.

Also love places where when you close the place up, the chef will come out and enjoy a glass of something with you. Happily many's the time when I have had occasion to pay homage to a great chef with a good bottle of something or other or a samll gift of appreciation delivered to the resuatrant after a recent gastronique epic.

Bottom line I suppose is that there are allot of very talented people ofut there who deserve recognition and appreciation, a tip is one way of showing that, but there are others too.

I think that anonplz and I agree on many points. The tipping of restaurant waiters and bartenders has a long history in the US. It is also expected by the IRS and other government agencies (Labor, etc.)

Also, at pricier restaurants, the service tends to reach a quasi-professional level. I would not call most of these waiters 'non-skilled', although I understand what that previouis post alluded to.

The 15% rule is of course a guideline. Bad service should not get 15%. And truly outstanding service should get more. Also, comments (good and bad) to the manager can be very helpful insofar as they speak to other people, beyond what the tip states (usu. only to the waiter.)

The topic of cleaning services is probably where anonplz and I disagree. I feel that regularly-paid employees do not warrant a gratuity for standard work. If I have a party in my hotel suite -- I'm thinking of two hospitalities that I hosted this summer -- of course I give something to the cleaners/ housekeeping.

I sense that many posters here also agree that the tip jars and outstretched hands in traditionally-non-tipped jobs -- lounge attendants, shop owners, etc. -- are not appropriate venues for gratuities.

I sympathize with the frustration that Kremmen states here.

However, the restaurant owners may be simply taking advantage of a custom that is quite long-in-tooth. Tipping waiters and bartenders is traditional and continues to be widely practiced in the US (almost universally practiced) to the current day.

On the subject of other fees, I also agree that it is frustrating to get a price quote that is not a final price. This is easily solved.

Simply requesting a final price from the vendor will usually provide the solution.

On the other hand, some merchants and some people in government believe that by highlighting the actual cost of goods versus the fees, taxes, gratuities, etc.; the customer is more informed. While it may be an annoyance, it does underscore the costs of various components of a good or service.

I disagree that this practice reflects broadly on the civility of the US society. Certainly we are all traveled enough to recognize different ways of doing similar things. Individuals and governments in the US clearly handle many things in different ways than do individuals and governments in other places. Vive la difference.

If consumers in the US want our costs and totals to look like costs and totals in the EU, it would happen over the course of time.

I derive a great deal of pleasure tipping someone who leasts expects it..e.g. the counterman in the deli who prepares a big order is generally not tipped (where the server who brings a sandwich is). Thus, that counterman is really thrilled when I hand him a five dollar bill. Yesterday, in a large fishmarket, I tipped the counterman who cracked and cleaned 4 fresh crabs. Again, he did not expect it and was very appreciative. Made me feel good.

Does this say it all about tipping generally?

I don't mean that in any nasty or holier-than-thou sense. It's just that there are many cultures in which the payment of money is regarded as the commercial transfer of a price in return for something, rather than an emotionally-charged action from which the donor is intended to derive pleasure or satisfaction. Other cultures see it differently and perhaps tend to tip more.

Or maybe I'm just being outrageouly pompous here.

The local talk radio station just read a letter from a listener who delivers pizza. The email pointed out that "not tipping your pizza guy is really pretty stupid. After all, he knows where you live", and that stiffing him was a good way to end up with flowers trampled, eggs thrown at your windows, and for repeat offenders, spit on your pizza. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/frown.gif



[This message has been edited by swag (edited 10-03-2002).]

Sounds like that is more of a reason to not get pizza delivered, rather than a reson to tip the delivery guy...

d

Sounds also like a good reason to terminate a pizza guy.

I just went over to Wawa to pick up some hoagies for the football game (homecoming) tomorrow. I had a large order, and several special requests. The young woman working alone behind the counter was very patient, and helped me out a lot. I rarely, if ever, tip at the deli or supermarket, but I slipped her a few dollars because she was so helpful. She seemed taken aback and genuinely thankful. That's what tipping SHOULD be about. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif