I always look for any of the key words and see if it has already been included. Usually the room service people don't do anythings extra anyways, they just stand there and watch you do math in your head and sign and I always check to see that eveything is there before I sign. I also don't like that you cannot keep a copy of the slip sometimes. Isn't it just like a restauruant in your room and the diner gets to keep a copy of what was signed and what was eaten.

I once encountered a similar situation - atrocious service followed by an included tip. many places include tip for parties of 6 /9 or more, but we were a party of 4. It was a busy time for the restaurant (jazzfest in New Orleans).

The waiter was friendly enough, but forgot our drinks, brought the appetizer after the entrees, brought me the wrong entree. Altogether, we had ordered 9 items, and 5 were mishandled.

When the bill came, I called the waiter over, and said something along the lines of "I don't want to give you a hard time, and I realize everyone has off nights sometimes, but I don't think 18% is appropriate, given the problems with the service." He said, "No problem, just leave what you're comfortable with". He knew the issues we'd had. I think he ended up with 8%.

Heh, realizing that my previous post there was pretty one-sided. I was too focused on responding to the idea of "If their salary is inusufficient let them take it up with management" to remember to include anything else. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif I should point out that I also don't add additional tips to room service and do think tips should be adjusted according to service level. And mandatory tips are not only annoying, but sometimes they do more harm than good on behalf of the server(s)! I used to go to a monthly dinner gathering that would vary anywhere from about 8-20 people. Normally this would be enough that they would add a mandatory tip, but they *knew* better after a while. They knew that we actually tipped way more than the mandatory tip for putting up with us and never bothered to add anything beforehand. On the other hand there are cases in groups where one or two people are cheapskates and the tip ends up being light, even if the service is fine. That's what it's designed to protect against, but I'm guessing it more often protects against getting a *higher* tip.

I think the reason a tip is mandatory for large groups is because:

1) The bill is paid by just one person, and a 15% tip on a large amount is a large amount of money. Some people will say "wow, that's a lot, let me add what I think is a reasonable tip", which works out to be only 5%.

or

2) The bill is split up amongst everyone, and it takes too long for each individual to figure out how much their share of the tip is.

Since 2) is basically the same as a party of one or two, I think 1) is the primary reason for having a mandatory tip for large groups. I don't see a problem with it.

In the restaurant business it is expected that you will tip an average of 15%.The server is payed a very little (generally below minimum wage) salary. Quite factually, if the restaurant has a no-tipping policy, the additional money paid to the servers would be passed on to the consumer. This is how it works in the US. You may not like it,but that is the way is.
Withholding tips, for appropriate service,will not change this system. It will not hurt the owners, but will hurt their employees. Where I come from we have a word to describe these people-CHEAP.

I'm sorry, but I think withholding the tip for bad service is completely within my rights. You'll find that many of the people who eat out frequently feel this way. We have expectations regarding service, and vote with our money.

A mandatory tip amounts to taxation without representation. (dramatic, huh?_

The operative word there being average. Yes, it is expected that on average, you tip 15%. That means sometimes paying for better service, or subtracting for poor service.

How I see it, it should only be called a TIP if it is optional. If it is expected or automatically billed, or otherwise required it is really just another charge.

I almost always tip 20% at restaurants. Why? sometimes we have an above average experience with our server but usually I just tip because the line is there and that's what people do. The service is not normally very good and often is bad.

Tips exist because there are a few jobs out there where the individual employee has a fair amount of control and discrestion over how good the customer is served. Tips ensure that the worker has the motivation and reward for a successful interaction with the customer.

Now, tips have evolved into TOO many jobs. In many cases, people are tipped simply because they didn't screw up or they weren't rude. Often, tip requests seems to ask, "hey, pay me a little extra just for doing my job (like scooping your ice cream)".- I know these jobs don't get paid a lot, but that's because they are not important jobs. They are minimum wage because they require no skill and no experience. We have all been there at some time. Truly, it is not our job to subsidise those with low paying jobs. Teachers are also underpaid, should we tip them just for showing up to work?

I am also sick of automatic tip charges. Just how does the hotel know beforehand that the service is going to derserve 18%? Normal is still only 15%........

The fact that bad service from these servers upsets you, helps prove that these jobs are important not "unimportant".I agree that I dislike the roomservice %'s, but I also dislike not having a salaried front desk clerk or manager not upgrade me when I am suppose to be. There are jobs that depend on tipping or these jobs either disappear or the establishment will raise their prices. That's a fact whether you like it or not. As long as any of us see these people as not "experienced" and "unskilled" I suppose we have a problem with letting go with a few dollars.The alternative is simple:cafeterias.But then again, some of them have unskilled unexperienced laborers that refill your glass and take up your plates as you get up for your next helping. Wouldn't want to leave them a buck.Certainly wouldn't want to "subsidise" them.

I have a basic rule of thumb when it comes to tipping.
Excellent Service = Excellent Tip
Poor Service = Poor Tip
Tips are like bonuses. You do a good job, your boss gives you a bonus. Bonuses are motivators. Tips are motivators.

No matter what the tip I leave, I always leave an explanation on their copy of the credit card receipt. I know they can't discard it and I hope that the managers might see it. Of course the majority of these scribblings are compliments, but I have left some lenthy complaints too. Either way, it's feedback for the waitperson even if a manager never sees it. Who knows, maybe they will stop and rethink their service skills. And I know of no one who doesn't like being told that their performance was outstanding.

relaxedPax

relaxed
Good post. I think I'll start using your sribbling idea.

RelaxedPax - great post.

I have always tipped according to service, leaving anywhere from 0% up to 30-40%.

I was once chased by a waiter for an entire NYC block (I didn't realise he was chasing me) when a group of friends and I only left a 10% tip for waht we considered mediocre service. We politely but firmly told him to buzz off and work more on his service skills.

I think I may take on your notes idea!

BTW, one other pet peeve is waiters who hang over your shoulder while you sign the credit card slip. This almost always makes me LOWER their tip, even if I had been planning a generous one.

------------------
I wish I were 1,000 miles away

On tipping, from Reservoir Dogs (heavily edited to keep it clean).

NICE GUY EDDIE
Okay, everybody cough up green for
the little lady.

Everybody whips out a buck, and throws it on the table.
Everybody, that is, except Mr. White.

NICE GUY EDDIE
C'mon, throw in a buck.


MR. WHITE
Uh-uh. I don't tip.


NICE GUY EDDIE
Whaddaya mean you don't tip?


MR. WHITE
I don't believe in it.

[edited for non-family content]

NICE GUY EDDIE
So let's get this straight. You never ever
tip?


MR. WHITE
I don't tip because society says I
gotta. I tip when somebody
deserves a tip. When somebody
really puts forth an effort, they
deserve a little something extra.
But this tipping automatically,
that s**t's for the birds. As far
as I'm concerned, they're just
doin their job.


MR. BLUE
Our girl was nice.


MR. WHITE
Our girl was okay. She didn't do
anything special.

[more non-family content]

MR. WHITE
These ladies aren't starvin to
death. They make minimum wage.
When I worked for minimum wage, I
wasn't lucky enough to have a job
that society deemed tipworthy.


NICE GUY EDDIE
Ahh, now we're getting down to it.
It's not just that he's a cheap
*******--


MR. ORANGE
--It is that too--


[again]

MR. WHITE
Hey, I'm very sorry that the
government taxes their tips.
That's ****** up. But that ain't
my fault. it would appear that
waitresses are just one of the
many groups the government [screws] on a regular basis.
You show me a paper says the
government shouldn't do that, I'll
sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll
vote for it. But what I won't do
is play ball. [***]

MR. ORANGE
He's convinced me. Give me my
dollar back.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

Redhead-

Interesting encounter in NYC. It has inspired me to share mine in NYC.

I was in the village in NYC and my brother, my wife & I stopped into a small restaurant. We were looking for a coffee shop, but my bother wanted to go in. He visits the city often being a NJ resident, and told the host we were just there for coffee, so as not to take up a booth. My wife ordered a cheese tomato sandwich thing and the three of us had coffee.
My brother paid and was short-changed by $2 and change! Since we had not had decent service at all, we took the tip out of the amount he shorted us and left him $1. He walked over and said "was the a problem with the service?" flapping the dollar about so all could see. So I said, loud enough for anyone watching, Yes. And we took the rest of your tip from the amount you short-changed us.
He tried denying it, but we just walked out.

relaxedPax

If you read my whole post, I first described the rational that makes tipping appropriate for some jobs, i.e: table serving.
Then I explained that the expectation has spilled over into other jobs that clearly have no business asking for tips. They are getting paid to do the job. Yea, its a low paying job, but it is not the customer's role to subsidise the wage of these people.
If you disagree, kindly allow me to forward an address where you can send me a small check every week for doing my job.