being cooperative and honest here is a small thing to ask

it 'only' did cost us 45 minutes in ORD: when I (accompanied by Gisela), knowing I had time to spare (and curious about the outcome) 'admitted' that, staying at the ORD-airport-Hilton, we left our luggage unattended in our room (during breakfast) and later did let it bring down by a porter made:
[*]looking the UA check-in-agent (first class line for the early morning flight to SJU) surprised and angry.[*]getting separated and searched in a manner not even done in some 3rd world countries (when I don't bribe): every small piece in the lugagge has been separated and taken out, even with detectors for traces of drugs of every single article in the toiletry bags, and we had to pack them again at the end (I was first just laughing and taking a picture of the scene, which wasn't appreciated by the 'detectives', but Gisela became finally really angry, when asked what perfume etc that and that is/was).

We nearly missed the flight.

Yes, this made me a FREQUENT LIAR!

and when I make international connections, involving UA-N-America-segments, I am only randomly asked (but always in FRA, never in MEX) the same questions.

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 02-11-2000).]

The last time I flew from BRU to IAD (12/99), the agent was being trained. Now, they are supposed to ask questions that are not answerable by "yes" and "no." Not "Did you pack your own luggage?," but "Who packed your luggage?" I'm an American living in Europe, and I was asked not only for my passport, but my proof of residency. Then, how long I had lived here, why, where do I study, in what department...I'm guessing this was for purposes of illustration to the newbie agent. I may be traveling economy, but I am presentable!

I was asked when boarding the plane where my carry-on had been before boarding, and if I had purchased anything outside of duty-free.

Contrast Reagan International, with curbside check-in. No one ever even asked for identification. Put my passport up on the counter...it stayed there, unopened.

Worst luggage-related travel mistake (made by me, traveling alone on my first overseas trip)...admitting to the security agents in Ben-Gurion Airport, Tel Aviv that you left your suitcases in the business office after you checked out of your room.

Actually it depends, since when one is arriving from a non Canadian city at Dorval, the baggage claim is in a secure area. Furthermore, on the way out it is the case that one cannot get through security and to the gate without being a ticketed traveller.

SMessier, I was deliverately excluding arrivals from international flights since I would think that just about everywhere in the world with a customs service would want you to have to pass through said service with your luggage before you made it out of any secure area.

With the exception of flights where you pre-clear US Customs and INS in Canada before you fly.

With the exception of Miami, where I'm told that even though you pre-clear US Customs and INS in Canada, you *still* have to go through it all over again in Miami.

I answer the "have the bags been in your control since the time you packed them" question with yes, and the pose the following question to the agent:

If you were under my control, and I asked you to jump, then you would jump. But if I desire this of my bags, they do not levitate. Are they really under my control?


If I may, I shall relate a tale where I was carrying goods that were not packed by me. I took a trip to Argentina for a vacation and had an acquaintance who had moved there earlier in the year. I had mentioned to her parents that I could take a bag down in case she needed things. They passed a GIGANTIC bag to me before I left. I would describe it as of Latin American proportions: all of 60 some pounds.

Knowing her only a little (she went to school with some of my friends and her parents lived next to my boss), I knew that I could trust that I was not dragging anything I could get arrested for, but I figured I should open the bag just to see what it was.

After repacking the bag with a computer printer, half opened bottles of perfume and makeup, and more panty hose than my four sisters could wear in one year, I prayed that Argentina would have a generous customs allowance so that I would not have a problem when I landed.

Of course, at the airport on departure it was no problem, but I got in the goods to declare line in Buenos Aires since I did not want to end up in jail on my vacation. When I flashed my US passport, the inspector skipped my bag and went to the next person. I had lost 5 pounds sweating from the expected embarrassment in line.

Chipper:

While I appreciate your "levitation" point, this could be an in invitation to initiate a body cavity search by some overzealous security/gate agent having a bad hair day.

SIR, YES SIR!
THANK YOU, SIR!
HAVE A NICE DAY, SIR!


------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

The security questions are completely stupid. So are the requirements for ID...it just lets the government track innocent citizens' travel. Wrong-doers will provide fake ID...duhhhh!

They take a special interest in my palmpilot, my cell phone, when I can simply tuck it into the x-rayed carry-on and nobody says a word about it...and what's so threatening about a palmpilot or a cellphone anyway?

The U.S. has been darned lucky. I am afraid that terrorism will reach these shores sometime soon, but there is nothing I can do about it unfortunately. I do know that the present system hurts ordinary citizens and doesn't do anything much to deter people bent on terrorism.

Clearly noone here has heard of "profiling."

In my work I frequently ask people whether or not they have ever been involved in the commission of a war crime or a crime against humanity. I clearly do not expect them to say, "yes", but I can make an assessment of their demeanour, and make a risk-maagement assessment. If the "no" is not credible, then sterner examination is called for.

The ID requirement is equally important. Airline staff are trained by their companies, and goverments (mostly foreign) to detect photo-substituted or altered identification, and detect imposters in possession of improperly obtained ID.

A frequent flier who acts like the agent is an idiot for asking these questions scores low on a threat assessment (other that for assault, perhaps), but that in no way diminishes the utility of this type of assessment.

And richard, as for travelling without ID, that is just plain stupidity. Never, ever, ever get stuck without the ability to prove that you are who you claim to be. The airline has every right to know that you are the person to whom they owe a service obligation. And for the security of the rest of the passengers, they have every right to make sure that no funny business is going on (whether it be fare-fraud or document swaps to assist people smuggling).

AC*SE: In my opinion airlines "owe a service obligation" to the person who holds the ticket, period. It is clear that for domestic travel the ID requirement simply serves to force customers into throwaway ticketing or doing "back to backs". The most grievous passenger sins short of actual violence in the airlines' eyes.

unGrounded: to the person who holds the ticket, period.

Well in my opinion in some neighborhoods FFer's will become the target for robberies. How easy to find, target and it could become a rewarding endeavor as soon as there is no more ID requirements. Who can forget 20 to 25 years ago before the airline computer systems became common and there were no ID requirements that blank ticket stock robberies from Travel Agents offices was a common occurence - The ticket stock could be filled out with pen & ink, with any name and by the time the airline was able to do the accounting the flight was long over.

[This message has been edited by magic111 (edited 02-13-2000).]

Last month when I was at LHR, I rebooked my tickets and ended up flying American instead of Canadian back to North America. Because my ticket change was done just a few hours before departure, they searched my bags at checkin and again at the gate.

This seems like a reasonable profiling action.

Be wary of giving capricious answers like "yeah, I have a bomb in my suitcase" since even making a joke about it is a federal offense.

A professor of engineering I knew was once travelling to a convention. He had with him a "pressure bomb", which is a scientific instrument used to conduct thermodynamic experiments. It is of absolutely no danger to anyone.

While on the plane, conversing with a fellow professor, the flight attendant overheard the term "pressure bomb". The plane promptly made an emergency landing at Chicago [they were going to San Fran] and this poor guy was hauled in front of security to explain what a pressure bomb was. Obviously, a very upset professor and a flight delayed.

I have to ask this question to the above posts, are the agents required to ask every passenger at check in or is it a random selecion, with some passengers being more random than others?

Twice now while checking in for a flight on a particular airline at the same SoCal airport, the counter agents have "forgotten" to ask me the questions. The first time, after I was handed my boarding pass, I told the agent that she forgot to ask me the questions. I was the first passenger of the day and she was a little shocked, apologized, and took my coach boarding pass and replaced it with a FC boarding pass.

The second time, the counter agent just looked at me in disbelief when I told him that he forgot the questions. He calmly asked the questions, then thanked me for flying with them today.

AC*SE, very interesting points that you've made and it does put new perspective on things.

I would never treat anyone like a moron because they have to ask these security questions, they are just doing their job and they didn't invent the policy. And I would never go anywhere without ID, all good points.

But I continue to believe that the ID requirement is a serious invasion of privacy and will not deter anyone serious on wrongdoing. You perhaps are a trained interrogator and judge of people in your work but I doubt whether the thousands of ticket and gate agents enlisted in this war are going to be as sophisticated and able to judge someone who is evasive.

Remember the recent news story of the "suspicious" people on the HP flight. Average Joes are not going to ferret out a liar by asking the stupid security questions or by vetting someone's ID. I still believe that but you make excellent points.

Magic111: I think FFers are already a pretty attractive target when you think about the laptops and precious metal-colored credit cards. As for blank ticket stock, it can still be filled out in a buyer's real name or one for which he or she happens to have ID. In Southern California a couple of years ago it was possible to buy counterfeit Green Cards and Social Security Cards for $100.00. It's not far from there to a photo ID.