Problems with consulate people
 

I have a friend who wants to go to Italy. He doesn't have a US passport and he needs a visa to enter the country. He went to the consulate but didn't get the visa because he didn't have a proof of his accommodation for just 1 night of the trip. That's understandable but he said the lady he talked to was quite rude. Has anybody ever had a situation like this? I think people who work at embassies and consulates are supposed to be nice to make good relationship among countries.

I’ve seen a similar pattern of thoughtless behavior in a number of embassies and consulates. I get the impression that many of the workers consider themselves to be the gatekeepers, rather than the ambassadors of their countries. I far more frequently get treated abruptly, than with any sort of care or consideration, at a whole raft of places such as the Chinese, Cambodian, Indian, Lao (although in BKK, the Lao embassy isn't too bad) and Burmese embassies, and even the Thai consulate in NYC, to name a few. And it isn't just Americans that get the treatment. I have accompanied many Thai friends to get their Schwengen visas for Europe in one of the many embassies that can issue such documents, and more often than not, witness fairly rough treatment. The attitude seems to be: prove that you will leave (my country) quickly (after spending what money you might bring), and not cause trouble. However, it’s sad to say but overseas American embassies in a number of Asian countries are the absolute worst. Walk into one with a local who is trying to get a visa in a place like, say, Bangkok, and you will get a good education about how America projects its attitudes to the rest of the world.

I didn't plan on writing with such vigor, but this is a good question, and something that has bothered me for quite some time.

UAL Traveler,

I can assure you that American embassies and consulates in Asia are NOT the absolute worst -- the ones in Africa are! In the 1980s, when I was a fairly high-ranking government official, I did a lot of work in Africa. The local people were treated terribly, and unreasonably so, essentially all the time. Once I tried to get the local ambassador (a friend) to intervene, but he said that he was not permitted to do so under any circumstances.

Then, in 1988, my own passports (personal and government) were stolen in Amsterdam. I had to get a new one at the local consulate, and I was treated terribly. I really couldn't believe how rude the people were, and I was one of them, more or less! I can't imagine how "ordinary" citizens get treated.

I finally came to the conclusion that U.S. consular officials are raised on special farms where the "nicer" ones get rejected and sent to work at places like the IRS. Only the truly fearsome can work in an overseas consulate, and only the scariest of those can work in Africa.

Bruce

bdschobel, I can imagine. Rude behavior is never called for, especially in a service as important as this one.

Well, just don't tell me where the nasty ones wind up.

It's really sad and disgusting that the US allows its consular employees worldwide to insult, degrade, and humiliate locals applying for visas the way they do. I have talked to numerous people abroad that were treated terribly and have a grudge against the US that they will carry for the rest of their lives. It's understandable to turn down certain people applying for visas, but to insult and humiliate them the way that happens so often is unforgivable (and the miscreants doing this should be relieved of their jobs). The general public in the US has no idea how much ill will has been built up against America over the years by this hateful, thoughtless behavior.

I see. Anyway I was told that American consulate people are much better when compared to those of a few European countries. Probably we can't make a conclusion from the country name. Some may happen to have bad people. Has anyone ever complained to the ambassador or the boss of the person who did not behave properly to the visa applicants? I don't know how much that's going affect him or her.

It's a sad fact of our world that many very nice people from other countries want to come and live in the US and Europe, because we're rich and have jobs they'll do. Up to a quarter million of them a year stay in the US without rights. How many consulates do we have? How many people is that per consulate per day asking for visas who will overstay?
Of course the staff sifting through applicants becomes jaded. Of course it is most unfortunate that this attitude affects legitimate visitors.

Without taking sides on the immigration question: we should understand that the citizens of the US elect Congresscritters who write laws these consulate staff are supposed to enforce. So who is ultimately responsible?

"We have met the enemy and he is us."--Pogo

Probably it's not because of different nationalities. People at consulates tend to behave like that sometimes even to people from their own country. The bad thing is that they're the only one who can give you the visas. No matter how bad they behave, you have to tolerate if you want it. If this happens in a supermarket, we can just go to another supermarket. I feel that some of them behave like this because they feel secured in their job. They don't have to care for others' feeling.

[This message has been edited by nlp (edited 02-10-2001).]

A vey old client of mine is the present USA Consul General for Chile. Lovely guy. Had dinner with him a month or so ago in Santiago. His role is passport supervision/visas etc. And he has worked all over the world in that role. A nicer person you could not wish to meet. And seeing Americans need to pay CASH, $US45 to enter Chile at the airport, I bet he cops some flack from you guys! (For Canadians it is $US55! Ozzies get off 'light' at $US35.)

Now don't get me started on the BRAZILIAN consul in Sydney. Indeed the Brazil consuls appear to be universally selected as THE most horrific of any "civilised" country.

Wonder if anyone else has had bad experiences?

Expensive (incredibly so!) unbelievabley rude and slow. I've been to Brazil last 2 years running, and not just a fluke, they were consistently dreadful BOTH times!

------------------
~ Glen ~

I don't know why Glen (Ozstamps) hated the Brasilian consulate employees so much.

My experiences with them have been nothing short of fantastic !!!

I've only had 2 consular experiences. Perhaps it's the luck of the draw, but for what it's worth:

Aussie consulate in DC for visas - folks were friendly and efficient.

Yugoslavian consulate in Den Haag for visas - we filled out our applications, handed them in and sat down to wait. It was beginning to look like it might be all day, as the room was very full of Yugoslavian workers resident in Holland, and there was a great deal of talking and confusion. Suddenly someone noticed they had American would-be tourists on the hoof; we were glad-handed, swept up into a private office, plied with books and brochures, offered coffee, and only extricated ourselves from the hospitality, complete with visas, with some difficulty. It was a stunning experience, as in hit by a brick. Nice, too, and a little sad.


[This message has been edited by GG (edited 02-11-2001).]

Many years ago I lived in a large South American city in a large South American country (I am being vague on purpose). I had a girlfriend there who I kept together with when I left the country. The next Christmas, I decided that rathet than fly down there, she should come upo to the US (I was in the UK at the time). She had a respectable job, blah blah blah.

To make a long story short, she was not only refused a visa, but made to feel particularly sh*tty by the agent involved. I tried to intervene from the UK, but could get no one on the phone (the consular officials only took calls one hour a day). I decided to go to SA via the US in order to sort this out for the future.

Once agin, without getting into specifics, I contacted a friend of mine who is/was an aide to someone high-ranking on the Senate Foreign relations committee. He was pissed at what happened and promised me that a fiance visa would be rushed through State and she woulf have it within three weeks. Too late, but she'd have it for the next trip. While down there I decided to visit the consulate, where I was treated by crap by everyone from the security guard, to the marines to the people inside. I was handed a copy of regulation 212B (I believe) which basically stated that any consular official could deny anyone a visa for any reason they wanted and there was no appeal unless new evidence was presented. As this girl had presented them with every manageable document, and that was not good enough, I asked what else they could want.

I was then basically told that the main reason why they wouldn't grant the visa was because she was too young and would probably stay in the US. I explained that this was not the case. The official then, believe it or not GAVE ME THE FINGER!!

I immediately told her to go to hell and stormed over to the main consulate building to talk with the Consul. He agreed to meet with me, however on second thought sent his secretary down to tell me that' "although he was willing to speak with youand intervene on your behalf, however he has just spoken to the woman who you insulted (the go to hell remark)and therefore will not help you.

A month later when the fiance visa came through, they sat on it for several months and refused to issue it even though the order came from State. By that time, we were no longer together.

At the end of the day, I can say just this. The Senator involved and his aides were very pissed at this. Two years later the consul general in question was up to become an ambassador to another Latin American country. The Senate did not confirm him by several votes, and he was subsequently demoted to a lower position in the same country. His career was basically ended, the Senator did not like being snubbed, and State did not like headaches like this.

The reason I write this is to demonstrate how small many of these people are, and even in the case where you go through channels and elected officials, things still do not go as they should.

Another time I was in a US consulate in Europe and overheard, "*******, they use Green passports, we always deny Green passports the first time, theyre usually from Muslim countries."

Many years ago I lived in a large South American city in a large South American country (I am being vague on purpose). I had a girlfriend there who I kept together with when I left the country. The next Christmas, I decided that rathet than fly down there, she should come upo to the US (I was in the UK at the time). She had a respectable job, blah blah blah.

BTW most illegals in the US dont bother to even try to get visas. Personally, I don't mind if someone who comes to the US to study works for a year or two. Our schools are expensive and they generally dont grab actuar
y and managerial employment.
To make a long story short, she was not only refused a visa, but made to feel particularly sh*tty by the agent involved. I tried to intervene from the UK, but could get no one on the phone (the consular officials only took calls one hour a day). I decided to go to SA via the US in order to sort this out for the future.

Once agin, without getting into specifics, I contacted a friend of mine who is/was an aide to someone high-ranking on the Senate Foreign relations committee. He was pissed at what happened and promised me that a fiance visa would be rushed through State and she woulf have it within three weeks. Too late, but she'd have it for the next trip. While down there I decided to visit the consulate, where I was treated by crap by everyone from the security guard, to the marines to the people inside. I was handed a copy of regulation 212B (I believe) which basically stated that any consular official could deny anyone a visa for any reason they wanted and there was no appeal unless new evidence was presented. As this girl had presented them with every manageable document, and that was not good enough, I asked what else they could want.

I was then basically told that the main reason why they wouldn't grant the visa was because she was too young and would probably stay in the US. I explained that this was not the case. The official then, believe it or not GAVE ME THE FINGER!!

I immediately told her to go to hell and stormed over to the main consulate building to talk with the Consul. He agreed to meet with me, however on second thought sent his secretary down to tell me that' "although he was willing to speak with youand intervene on your behalf, however he has just spoken to the woman who you insulted (the go to hell remark)and therefore will not help you.

A month later when the fiance visa came through, they sat on it for several months and refused to issue it even though the order came from State. By that time, we were no longer together.

At the end of the day, I can say just this. The Senator involved and his aides were very pissed at this. Two years later the consul general in question was up to become an ambassador to another Latin American country. The Senate did not confirm him by several votes, and he was subsequently demoted to a lower position in the same country. His career was basically ended, the Senator did not like being snubbed, and State did not like headaches like this.

The reason I write this is to demonstrate how small many of these people are, and even in the case where you go through channels and elected officials, things still do not go as they should.

Another time I was in a US consulate in Europe and overheard, "*******, they use Green passports, we always deny Green passports the first time, theyre usually from Muslim countries."

My only experience, thus far, with a consulate was the Indian Consulate here in Houston. My buddy was getting married there and I probably had it the easiest....the consulate was about two blocks from my office.

They were decent. But a short time later, I brought my parents in to drop their passports off in the afternoon and they would not BUDGE. We had to go in the next morning and drop them off.

One cool thing: I've got the green Ben Franklin passport so when the lady went to look through a stack of US passports I told her to look for the green one and I probably shaved 20 minutes off my wait time.

My friend and his friend went to the consulate again today. They got all the documents they required. Still the lady at the consulate said the hotel reservations must contain the names of both people. She refused to give visas. My friend thinks he won't probably get the visa in time as he plans to leave on Friday. He's applying at the Italian consulate in Los Angeles. He booked hotels room through nwa.com website and it doesn't allow him to add one more person to the itinerary though the rooms are for 2 people. Any suggestion? Thanks.