Boeing in Long Beach
 

(Feels strange to write Boeing when it was Douglas for so long)

Anyway, I flew out of LGB the other day and I was looking at the Boeing factory as I was waiting for my flight. 2 MD-11 in various stages of completion were stored outside (both in Lufthansa colors, one looked like a freighter and one looked like a passenger version. CL and CM, respecitvely, were the tail letters, or was it GL and GM - I couldn't see). Besides that, I could see a number of 717's (or MD-90's - the top of the tail looks the same to me) behind a low wall, only the tails stuck up behind the wall.

That leads me to two questions:

What A/C are still being made in LGB? Is it just MD-11 and B717, or is the C-17 still made there as well?

What contraption is used to support the MD-11 before the landing gear is mounted on the plane? One of the MD-11 could not have had landing gear, but is was stored outside on the tarmac. Looked strange since it was so high off the groud, but I could not see what it was resting on.

Anyone knows?

/Pete

According to Boeing total order & delivery figures:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/orders/totals.html

There are 3 MD-11's yet to be delivered ... and they aren't taking order for them any longer.

Also, I don't believe they are manufacturing MD-90's in Long Beach anymore. The delivery stats show 3 yet to be delivered, but I believe those are from the plant in China building MD-90's (the "trunk liner" as it's called there), not from Long Beach.

What you did see were most likely 717's, not MD-90's. They are kind of hard to tell apart, but the 717 is a good bit smaller. The way I can tell MD-90's is that the engine on them is particularly "fat" ... much bigger than the engines on other DC-9 derived aircraft.

Thanks for all info. I was under the impression (I don't know why) that the MD-11 was history - that's why I was so surprised to see the two of them there.
Since I saw more than three small ones and the were all of the same size, I would assume they were 717's.

My safest way to tell the MD-90 apart from the other DC-9/MD-80 family is to loot at the top of the tail. The MD-90 is flat when you look at it from the side AND from the front/back. The others are curved/rounded. The only plane that also has the rounded tail is the Fokker, but there are so many other differencies, that it is hard to mixe those up. What I'm looking for now is a good tell-tale difference (besides the size) between the 717 and the 90.

Trivia: What is the B717-100? And don't cheat and look at the Boeing web-site http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

/Pete

[This message has been edited by L-1011 (edited 08-09-2000).] I would like a spell checker in here http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redface.gif

[This message has been edited by L-1011 (edited 08-09-2000).]

The C17 is still being built at LGB...I used to work on the program. It is still going strong. As far as commercial aircraft, I do believe only the 717 is being built along with some MD11 frieghters. The last MD80 was delivered to TWA earlier this year.

The reason I thought one of the MD-11 is a passenger is that all the windows are there on the CM. The CL is clearly a freighter. Do they cover the windows up just before painting, or how does that work?

/Pete

I live in Long Beach and drive by Boeing quite often. Yes, the C-17 is going strong and the 717's (formerly MD-95) are there too. Often we will see various MD's parked there for factory maintenance.

I live in LB also and my dad worked for Douglas Aircraft for many years before I became McDonnell Douglas then McBoeing. Boeing is now in the real estate business and is busy demo'ng old WWII era building so that they can sell the land for aircraft related industry businesses. I really think that they are trying to get out of the commerical aircraft building business here.

Only the 717 is accepting new orders for production, the others are finishing the previously ordered aircraft. They may also be converting some MD-11 to MD-11F standard. C-17 is going strong, USAF ordered some more, and Royal Air Force is considering a handful.

As for the 717-100 (did not cheat!), its a shortened version with no orders. When the first 717 was introduced as the -200, it became apparent that a family (shortened and stretched) might be offered.

How about the KC-135? On Boeing's web site it is (was) listed as 717-100. Apparently there were enough differencies in the fuselage to warrant a number other than 707 (on which it is based), so they used 717. It will be interesting to see what they will do with two different -100's if they ever shorten the present 717.

/Pete

I came back to LGB last night. This time there were 2 C-17 rolled out, and one more visible inside. A couple of 717's were visible in the building across the street.

But nobody has been able to tell me what in the world the MD-11 was resting on when it didn't have landing gear mounted. Curios minds want to know.

/Pete

According to the Boeing web site:

"The KC/C-135 series was initially designated within The Boeing Company as the model 717. In January 1998, the 717 model number was reassigned to the commercial line for the 717-200 regional jetliner."

The KC/C-135, among other things, have a crew entry hatch aft and below the cockpit instead of the standard entry door. Also, the military version actually came ahead of the commercial 707.

As for the MD-11 sans landing gear, it may simply be sitting on jacks. Sometimes aircraft are jacked up to test or install landing gear, but I don't know if it applies to "heavies" such as the MD-11.

[*]The only planes in production at Long Beach at this time are the 717 and C-17.
[*]Freighters are no longer in production at Long Beach.
[*]The MD-11, ship number 646 you saw was sitting on the West Ramp waiting to be painted. No additional MD-11s are scheduled for production in Long Beach.
[*]During various stages of production the MD-11 rests on hydraulic jacks until the landing gear is installed. This all occurs indoors. MD-11s never sit outside without landing gear.
[*]No more MD-90s being produced in Long Beach. The last MD-90 "went over the fence" in January 2000.

Not quite (I had my small binoculars with me to check with). The ship outside had the tail partially painted and had the letters "CM" already painted. According to Bill Harms' Commercial Jet Aircraft Census, this is ship 645 and listed as a freighter. Why would it have all windows visible? The ship around the corner (looked as if it was waiting to be delivered together with a buch of 717's) had the tail letters "CL" = ship 644. That leaves us with ship 646 which I didn't see.

The aformentioned binoculars couldn't tell me that there was a landing gear on that ship. As a matter of fact, it was sitting almost twice as high off the ground as I would have expected an MD-11 do.

/Pete

L-1011, Hopefully within the next four hours I'll validate my previous information and get additional clarification from my Long Beach Boeing connections, and correct any discrepancies. I will post it in this space as soon as possible.

Update: The moment I have the information, I will post it here.
Update II: Still gathering info, sorry for the delay.
Update III: Waiting for the last couple pertinent details.
Update IV: Almost! I'm expecting the info today.
Update V: Stay Tuned! Today's the day! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Update VI: At Long Last!!!
(see below--sorry for the delay)


[This message has been edited by MRLIMO (edited 08-17-2000).]

L-1011, I apologize for any confusion my earlier post may have caused. Next time I'll take copious notes rather than rely on my memory. I've listed my original statements below and have made corrections and clarifications, as necessary.
[*]The only planes in production at Long Beach at this time are the 717 and C17.
CORRECTION AND CLARIFICATION: Two MD-11 freighters are in various stages of final production; ship 645, already painted, sitting on the West Ramp (the Delivery Center area) ready for delivery and ship 646, sitting outside Building 58, (adjacent to Lakewood Blvd.) waiting to be painted. These are the final two MD-11s being produced at Long Beach.
[*]Freighters are no longer in production at Long Beach.
CORRECTION AND CLARIFICATION: The final freighters being produced at Long Beach are the two MD-11s mentioned above.
[*]The MD-11, ship number 646 you saw was sitting on the West Ramp waiting to be painted. No additional MD-11s are scheduled for production in Long Beach.
CORRECTION: One of the two or three MD-11s you saw was ship 645. It was sitting on the West Ramp (the Delivery Center area) already painted waiting for delivery. Another one was ship 646, sitting outside Building 58 waiting to be painted. These are the final two MD-11s being produced at Long Beach. A third one you may have seen was ship Test-1, also known as ship T-1, a passenger ship which is painted with the McDonnell Douglas colors. Ship T-1 would most likely have been the first MD-11 built and has been completely through "all" possible testing, etc. Boeing usually keeps the first built on their premises, or at least readily available, for various reasons. This may explain the MD-11 you saw with all the windows.
[*]During various stages of production the MD-11 rests on hydraulic jacks until the landing gear is installed. This all occurs indoors. MD-11s never sit outside without landing gear.
CORRECT AS STATED
[*]No more MD-90s are being produced in Long Beach. The last MD-90 "went over the fence" in January 2000.
CORRECTION: February 2000.

Additional Information from unnamed sources and contacts: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
[*]Building 80 is the production line for 717s.
[*]Building 84 was the production line for MD-11s. It is currently empty and soon "to go dark." http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
[*]The two MD-11 freighters, ship numbers 645 and 646 are scheduled for delivery to Lufthansa.
[*] Lufthansa will send Lufthansa pilots to Long Beach to fly their planes "over the fence" home.
[*]CL and CM are "tracking or configuration numbers" and identify the "owner" or "customer of record" as well as the ship and its respective configuration requirements. These tracking numbers are used throughout the entire building process.
[*]During various stages of production, the installed windows have a durable protective film on them. Prior to painting, with the protective film intact, the windows are masked and covered with additional materials which further protect the windows during the painting process.
[*]For the curious minds that want to know (including mine), an MD-11 sits "extremely high" with the landing gear in place. This would give it the appearance of sitting twice as high off the ground as one would expect.
[*]MD-11 tail sections were always installed outside due to their height. The tail sections are never installed inside any of the buildings.

I hope I got it right this time around. In the future I'll respond only to posts that I have direct knowledge or I'll do a personal on-site inspection of Long Beach Boeing. L-1011, I wish I could have answered all your questions but I do believe I may have worn out my welcome with my Long Beach Boeing contacts, at least for this month. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif