US Customs check on EXIT ?
 

I just flew out of DTW to AMS on NW. I've never seen this before on international flights. US Customs agents on the jet way before the aircraft, stopping and questioning passengers before they leave the USA. Where do you work, your occupation, how much money are you carrying, who will you be visiting and their occupation. Reminded me of "old time" Soviet Union, they had a customs check before you departed. Is this being done in other cities? I'm aware that you legally must agree to a Customs check when entering this country but on leaving? Is this something new?

I've never heard of this happening. My suspicion might be that they had a tip that someone/something illicit was on the flight, and trying to escape the US.

Never seen that in the US... interesting. Now of course leaving a whole buncha other countries it's almost routine...

I have seen it a couple of times this year when departing LAX on flights to Europe. I don't know what the reason is for these checks.

I thought it was interesting that we went through U.S. Cutoms upon leaving Toronto. Of course it makes a lot of sense, but was just a bit different.

Punki,

US Customs often do their thing in Canada when leaving by air to the US. I've had this happen also in Vancouver. Really through me since I'm used to crossing the border by car in either Niagra Falls or near the Thousand Islands.

When events like this have happened to me in the past, it was invariably to or from countries where there is large drug import/export trade.

For example, there is a lot of narcotics importing into Australia from the U.S. and Europe, so it is very common for customs to have dogs and extra agents in the boarding area and jetway of these flights. On a coule, all the passengers had to file past the dogs.

On an AMS flight, they may be looking for people with lots of cash to buy narcotics for import. Not a bad idea at all.

From what I understand is that in several Canadian airports US Customs sits there so they can check it all out there and then you can land at a regular gate in the USA rather going through customs in the USA. My question does that make that part of the airport like the embassies, technically US soil? Hmmm...

It worked well for me since customs through Toronto was quick while customs at Pittsburgh gets backed up since the flights from Paris and Frankfurt dump in around then too.

US Customs is in Toronto and other Canadian airports so that they can fly direct to nearby airports like Rochester, Syracuse, etc., that do not have customs officers. I'm not sure if that makes the partitioned area technically US territory...or what kinda deals were struck to set this up.

I have passed through the local nation's customs leaving Europe a few times (Milan-Linate comes to mind), but it was pretty painless. Have never seen it leaving the US.

Here's an interesting one, though: US Agriculture Dept. inspecting bags of passengers flying from Puerto Rico (SJU) to mainland US. Considering it is US territory, and imports and agriculture are presumeably held to similar standards, I'm not really sure what the point of that was.

Think each state has some individual regulatory power Paulo. Look at Hawaii back to Mainland USA or even somtimes driving into CA from AZ!

I'm sorry, you've totally lost me. What happens when you're driving from CA to AZ? I have never seen anything but a "Welcome" sign at state borders.

Because agriculture is such a big part of California's economy there are US Ag Dept. checkpoints at many of the borders when entering California from other states. Keeping our chokes and grapes safe from those pesky "foreign" critters. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I've also gone through US Immigration when going from US Virgin Islands to mainland, which I thought was peculiar.

Kind of OMNI, but the strangest immigration routines I've ever been through have involved sailing a private sailboat in and out of foreign ports. In La Paz, for instance, had to check out with immigration to go sailing in Mexican waters and then check back in upon return to the same port, despite having never left the country ... the equivalent of having to clear immigration to go sailing in San Francisco Bay for a few days. There was a little matter of a $200 fee for the immigration agent's time as well.

On Ios in Greece, the immigration agent called us into a one-room building, where he sat behind a huge yellowed ledger and logged our passport numbers. Felt like I was in some old movie.

I've also seen immigration agents tell foreign sailors before them to button their shirts, put more clothes on, etc. Not exactly the kind of stuff you hear from agents in airports.

[This message has been edited by letiole (edited 11-18-1999).]

Thanks letoile for the agri explanation.

BTW- Letiole- Very Omni0- I thought I was the only American to visit La Paz. Seems mostly Mexican folks on holiday go there. When I initially tried to book my flight, they of course thought I meant LPB, Bolivia, South America! Then my travel agent thought I was absolutely crazy. I recall staying at the old, but nice Los Arcos but this was 15 yrs ago. Very relaxing. My agent previously had been surprised that we were going to Guaymus, San Carlos, SON. Also great time near where Catch 22 was filmed at Algodones beach. Now there is a Club Med up the road there. Anyway some of the less developed areas can be so much fun. And the food, especially seafood, was just spectacular!

Doc: Well actually, La Paz is filled with Americans. In fact, most everyone who lives there is American. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

As for U.S. citizens vacationing there, there aren't a lot of hotels, but it's a very popular sailing and diving destination, what with all the islands nearby and the abundance of marine life. Also the grey whale mating/birthing lagoons on the left coast of BCS - a day-trip from La Paz - are drawing lots of tourists. Getting there has generally meant an interesting couple hour ride up from Cabo, but AeroCalifornia and now Alaska are offering flights into La Paz.

Wonderful thing about La Paz and the gulf is it seems unchanged from Steinbeck's descriptions in "Log From the Sea of Cortez." It's really a magical place. On my last visit, a whale came and checked us out for a while, a dozen dolphins played around our boat for hours and manta rays would nuzzle up next to us while we dove seemingly encouraging rides. Life doesn't get much better!

Paulo, I beleive there are customs agents available in Rochester, not sure about Syracuse. There are occassioanl charter that are international - it seems that I have seen some kind of sign for US customs in Rochester, but it is certainly not a full time presence.

Bodie:
Most likely they were looking for someone taking large amounts of money out of the country to avoid taxes. Legally you can only take $10,000 out with you, unless you decalre it. A few years ago at EWR there was an article in the local paper of them stopping and questioning people.

Bodie:
Most likely they were looking for someone taking large amounts of money out of the country to avoid taxes. Legally you can only take $10,000 out with you, unless you decalre it. A few years ago at EWR there was an article in the local paper of them stopping and questioning people.

According to the gate agent in Toronto (YYZ), once you pass through customs you are on US 'soil'.

Seems logical. Just like embassies in foreign countries.

Cheers,

'toad

Hammertoad:
You were given incorrect info. The US INS/Customs are on Canadian territory. The proof is in what happens if you refuse to let them inspect your luggage. In the US, they would mostly likely use that as reasonable grounds to search and possibly arrest you. In a Canadian airport, the only option they have is to refuse you entry. In fact, they are obliged to offer you this option. The consequence of course, is that you'll be flagged as having been denied entry, pretty much removing any chance of you ever entering the US again. And BTW, there's usually a mountie nearby, who'd probably be interested in you refusing to have your luggage examined.

Nevertheless, clearing US formalities in Canada makes landing in the US much quicker and easier, especially if you are making a connection, which is very common. As noted earlier, it also allows for direct flights to airports that wouldn't normally allow international arrivals, due to customs limitations.

As for exit checks, I get them fairly regularly, both by air and by car, and once by ferry. It's happened in BC, ON, somewhere between SK and MT a long time ago, and between Miami and Panama. Each time they wanted to know if I had more than $10,000 (I wish!), but sometimes they ask other questions as well. I've also been asked this question once in a while upon entering the US.



[This message has been edited by KenHamer (edited 11-19-1999).]

Yes, but is the Mountie that is standing nearby on a horse? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

But seriously, flying YVR-SEA it is a serious benefit to clear customs in YVR, especially if you are flying UA. You get to arrive at the N satellite, instead of arriving at the S satellite, checking bags, and switching trains twice (ugh). I recently cleared customs in SEA for the first time (from NRT). For a small (size-wise) airport, you sure have to do a lot of maneuvering. There were customs agents asking people questions while they were standing around at the baggage claim, as well. I had to answer questions of three agents before I could get my bag out "what KIND of conference were you attending?"... I realize they are attempting to keep us all safe, but it was certainly much worse than I have experienced the last few times in Chicago. No dogs, though.

[This message has been edited by usoftie (edited 11-22-1999).]

several unrelated notes...

1. At SEA after the PIP noticed that AS flights from Victoria BC apparently aren't pre-cleared--they arrive at the S. Satellite.

2. I think at YOW pre-clearing only has started recently--I recall seeing AC planes at T5 in ORD from there 2 or so years ago.

3. I think that Shannon Ireland also pre-clears like the major Canada airports.

4. I got into a little trouble one time asking (strictly out of curiosity) whether the immigration inspector at YYZ was a US citizen. I wonder about that sometimes--could a resident alien block a citizen from returning to the USA?

or is it like at the supermarket when you have wine and the checker is 19 years old--they call over the citizen to say "you can't come in" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
jl

[This message has been edited by jamiel (edited 11-20-1999).]

I guess coincidentally, I have seen this at DTW on several occasions departing for AMS. I have also noticed that they ask foreign (mostly) passengers if they are carrying currency in excess of $ 10K. MAybe some drug thing going on??

Two more related notes:

1.) Anybody flying back to the USA from the Montréal FÁQ should add YUL to their list of Canadian airports where you clear U.S. customs before departure.

2.) And add me to the list of people who've been to La Paz, at least to its airport - my 1972 flight to Asunción, Paraguay went through there!

Flying YVR-SEA on sunday I decided to do some investigative reporting at YVR about this phenominon after reading the thread. Asked three people and got three different answers:

According to the US Customs agent, passing the customs area was like entering any international departure area (he compared it to LHR). You are still under local law. (BTW, I paid for asking my question with a prolonged set of questions about my time in Canada, rather than the perfunctory passport stamp)

According to the guy who I had to bribe in order to get out of the country (they called it an "Airport Improvement Fee," but a rose by any other name...) he thought that US and FAA rules applied beyond the customs/immigration area.

According to the lady in the Maple Leaf/RCC, there was joint jurisdiction.

I guess you can choose whichever story you like best http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Jamiel -

Once I had my INSPASS card done at YYZ (was I sorry to see that expire-the only good photo ID picture I've ever had) and while I was waiting through the interminable computer processing delay for the INSPASS system, I was chatting w/ the Customs agent.

She said they are US citizens who (nearly all) live in the US-at least for the YYZ station. I didn't think to ask what happens at stations further away from the US. I would assume they must still be US citizens, even if they live in Canada - like the consular staff in embassy/consulate posts abroad.

My guess is that Canadian air regulations still apply even though you are on the airside "in" the United States. Having dealt with Canadian regulators in other areas, I can't imagine Transport Canada would relinquish its authority at a Canadian airport. It's like the sterile areas you sometimes find in the United States, e.g., IAD - even though you haven't "entered" the United States when making a connection for immigrations purposes, I would bet almost any amount of money that IAD's finest would be right there to arrest you if you refused to put that cigarette out in a no-smoking zone. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Greg

us customs facilities also exist in the airport in dublin, ireland. once upon a time, i'm sure it was a much overutilized route than it is now.

I wrote a short article about the U.S. customs. I will try to dig it up and post it. Until I post my article, I have one comment: The U.S. customs is violating the Constitution by conducting unreasonable searches without probable cause.

A US government authority impinging on civil rights by making unreasonable demands. Who would have thought it?

(Trading with the enemy acts, tax returns for foreign residents, customs form on entry breaching international convenitons, etc. etc.)

Happy Holidays.

Doesnt seem too many of you fly starting from Jrk to Europe. Its been a common sighting for years now before you get onto the actual jetway,US customs agents, there main concern is taking more than one is allowed in cash and negotiable paper. Havnt been stopped but then I only wish I had that prob.Ive see them take people away who said they were carrying less than said they were and had over the 10,000 limit.

Winnipeg (YWG) and Edmonton (YEG) also do US preclearance--there are I believe 14 Canadian airports that do. The only countries with which the US has that treaty are Canada and Ireland--it is used at Shannon and Dublin, and maybe also at Cork.

FWIW, the food sources and newsstands past preclearance at YYZ and YEG deal strictly in Canadian currency.

U.S. customs is a rather hot topic for me...I am very upset at the invasiveness people are subject too while passing through passport control and customs.

Think about this:

If US. customs can justify searching and questioning a person when they enter or leave the country, why is this not a violation of the Constitution?

If it is ok to search someone when they enter/leave the country, why not do it at state boarders?

how about between any two cities?

or between two neighborhoods?

or between any two points that one might travel?

well forget travel...why not just randomly barge into people's homes and conduct searches for anything...like 128-bit encrypted crossword puzzles that were emailed from other countries.

I don't know about everyone else, but I do mind being stopped, questioned, and searched, when I have done nothing wrong...I don't care what boarder it is.