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-   -   Is there a Solution to the Carryon Crisis? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/2124637-there-solution-carryon-crisis.html)

WillCAD Jun 19, 2023 3:47 am

I fly WN exclusively. It's not brand loyalty, it's just that I'm in Baltimore, so they have the most flights and the lowest prices to everywhere I've flown since they became the 800lb gorilla at BWI.

I like WN's luggage policies - two checked bags included with the fare, charges for checked bags over 50lb, no charge for carry-ons. One large carry-on and a 'personal item' permitted per person.

What I don't like is lax enforcement of the carry-on policies, which often results in crowded overhead bins and a lot of gate checking for those at the end of the boarding process. I've seen people get on the plane with a 22" roller, a backpack of equal size, and a shopping bag full of stuff, all of which they cram into the overhead inefficiently without any kind of organization. Flight crews and GAs never say anything to those with too much stuff or oversize stuff.

Still, even with the lax enforcement, the policies combine to make the WN experience pretty workable. Boarding and deplaning generally run pretty efficiently, though there are inevitable delays when a shorter person tries to lift a large bag into the overhead that's too high for them to even see the inside, or some fussy person needs to configure their entire row of seats before stepping out of the aisle.

Charging for a nominal luggage allowance has always smacked of manufactured fees to me. I've never liked the idea of surcharges for things that should be included in the base price, because it inevitably results in people trying to game the system, which tends to cause problems for others when they take up customer service lines to argue why their off-the-wall solution meets the rules. It also causes problems when those who don't use the a la carte services argue that they shouldn't be charged for them, and the billing system is never set up to easily remove the surcharges. So I have always liked the luggage policies on WN, which are simple and easy to follow for most people.

Eastbay1K Jun 19, 2023 8:50 am

There's no crisis. There's an enforcement and proper placement issue.

As long as I can recall, there have been overhead bin issues, and this was with free checked bags (but smaller overhead bins). And between all the status-entitled and CC-entitled pax, plenty of us are getting at least a free checked bag. If the airlines want more people to volunteer to check a bag at the gate in likely "overhead bin crisis" situations, they should offer something meaningful, not early boarding. Why anyone would want to board earlier when sitting way back and not needing overhead space is beyond me. Perhaps a free drink or snack box voucher depending on flight length? And lest we forget that on many aircraft, usable underseat space has diminshed with electronic system boxes taking up space.

pinniped Jun 20, 2023 2:33 pm


Originally Posted by Herb687 (Post 35325755)
What is the crisis?

The OP got told to check a bag.

CRISIS.

jrl767 Jun 20, 2023 10:02 pm


Originally Posted by Eastbay1K (Post 35344518)
There's no crisis. There's an enforcement and proper placement issue. …


Originally Posted by pinniped (Post 35348529)
The OP got told to check a bag.

CRISIS.

these, together, pretty much sum it all up :/

moondog Jun 21, 2023 8:16 am

I'm a fan of airlines that have strict carry-on limits because they help get people on and off the planes faster. Furthermore, if everybody has a personal item only, there is no need to battle to board before others. Charging people to check their 18" bags is dumb though.

pinniped Jun 21, 2023 9:35 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 35350458)
I'm a fan of airlines that have strict carry-on limits because they help get people on and off the planes faster. Furthermore, if everybody has a personal item only, there is no need to battle to board before others. Charging people to check their 18" bags is dumb though.

I've always felt that the optimal approach would be that each ticket includes 1 checked bag. Sure, there are some "I'll never check anything ever" people out there, but allow people 1 checked bag and you'll move enough bags out of the cabin to end the, uh, "crisis".

It seems like 10-15 years ago, we pivoted rapidly from the prevailing standard that you could check 2 bags to a new standard of ZERO checked bags. Thus creating a push to bring as much as possible into the aircraft cabin.

I know airlines like to dangle the "free" checked bag with their credit cards and whatnot, but that's clearly not enough to vastly change how much crap people try to bring onboard.

moondog Jun 21, 2023 1:31 pm


Originally Posted by pinniped (Post 35350677)
I've always felt that the optimal approach would be that each ticket includes 1 checked bag. Sure, there are some "I'll never check anything ever" people out there, but allow people 1 checked bag and you'll move enough bags out of the cabin to end the, uh, "crisis".

It seems like 10-15 years ago, we pivoted rapidly from the prevailing standard that you could check 2 bags to a new standard of ZERO checked bags. Thus creating a push to bring as much as possible into the aircraft cabin.

I know airlines like to dangle the "free" checked bag with their credit cards and whatnot, but that's clearly not enough to vastly change how much crap people try to bring onboard.

Your post got me thinking about the JAX TSA, which is the slowest I've ever experienced. If people weren't encouraged to carry on as much as possible, it would be 25% faster. The airlines/airports should really evaluate their policies using an industrial engineering lens. I will say that BOS is quite fast IME though.

Davvidd Jun 22, 2023 7:52 am

Today I saw a guy with his suitcase, his carry on and his huge laptop case and then a fairly big back pack. I have no issues with one carry on rule. But make it an international size for the carry on. You take a flight and then make a connection and then get stuck with your carry on from your previous flight. At least have a universal size instead of each airlines deciding on what the size is. Now with checked luggage it has to be 32kgs or less.

Eastbay1K Jun 22, 2023 8:49 am


Originally Posted by Davvidd (Post 35353367)
Today I saw a guy with his suitcase, his carry on and his huge laptop case and then a fairly big back pack. I have no issues with one carry on rule. But make it an international size for the carry on. You take a flight and then make a connection and then get stuck with your carry on from your previous flight. At least have a universal size instead of each airlines deciding on what the size is. Now with checked luggage it has to be 32kgs or less.

Free market? Or Government Regulation? And what is "international size?" Depends on the country, and the airline. And 32kg or less - depends on the airline - many are 23kg or less, and charge if it weighs more.

If I'm on an overnight to 4 day trip, I'm likely bringing my standard rollerbag and a laptop bag - plenty compliant, but my smaller roller isn't going to hold what I want/need. So if I have a choice of airline, I'm choosing the one where I don't have to check luggage.

GUWonder Jun 22, 2023 3:01 pm


Originally Posted by Eastbay1K (Post 35353499)
Free market? Or Government Regulation? And what is "international size?" Depends on the country, and the airline. And 32kg or less - depends on the airline - many are 23kg or less, and charge if it weighs more.

If I'm on an overnight to 4 day trip, I'm likely bringing my standard rollerbag and a laptop bag - plenty compliant, but my smaller roller isn't going to hold what I want/need. So if I have a choice of airline, I'm choosing the one where I don't have to check luggage.

I saw enough people pestered over 10-12kg hand luggage at CDG this month and last month when flying AF that you can bet it’s part of my consideration in my travel plans when I’m possibly otherwise not benefitting from a greater cabin baggage allowance on my AF flights originating at CDG.

Some European flights have gone down to a ridiculously little 8kg cabin baggage allowance on wide bodies too — the same as with the narrow body A3XX planes too. And it really is all about the money for the airlines even when they try to package it as being about something else beside that.

moondog Jun 22, 2023 3:34 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 35354494)
I saw enough people pestered over 10-12kg hand luggage at CDG this month and last month when flying AF that you can bet it’s part of my consideration in my travel plans when I’m possibly otherwise not benefitting from a greater cabin baggage allowance on my AF flights originating at CDG.

Some European flights have gone down to a ridiculously little 8kg cabin baggage allowance on wide bodies too — the same as with the narrow body A3XX planes too. And it really is all about the money for the airlines even when they try to package it as being about something else beside that.

Assuming your empty bag weighs less than 1 kg, that still gives you 7 kg for your personal items. Furthermore, the policy ensures that ALL passengers can bring personal items onboard.

GUWonder Jun 22, 2023 3:36 pm


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 35354573)
Assuming your empty bag weighs less than 1 kg, that still gives you 7 kg for your personal items. Furthermore, the policy ensures that ALL passengers can bring personal items onboard.

Furthermore, it ensures more people have to check in luggage that was previously allowed as cabin baggage for the very same flights. Also, it ensures more people get hassled even over tighter allowance compliant cabin baggage.

I certainly don’t want to have to deal with checked-in luggage more than I already have to do so; and so I will apportion my business based on my self-interest with regard to that too.

moondog Jun 22, 2023 3:48 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 35354578)
Furthermore, it ensures more people have to check in luggage that was previously allowed as cabin baggage for the very same flights. Also, it ensures more people get hassled even over tighter allowance compliant cabin baggage.

I certainly don’t want to have to deal with checked-in luggage more than I already have to do so; and so I will apportion my business based on my self-interest with regard to that too.

This is the reason planes have luggage storage at the bottom of their fuselages. Charging passengers money to avail of them (for your standard travel bag) is ludicrous when it clearly costs us aggregate time. I get the fact that some airports are slow at delivering bags; put more pressure on them.

ETA: If you had a choice of boarding your flight 30 minutes earlier than needed or waiting in baggage claim at PDX for 30 minutes, why would you choose the former?

TGarza Jun 22, 2023 3:55 pm


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 35354573)
Assuming your empty bag weighs less than 1 kg, that still gives you 7 kg for your personal items. Furthermore, the policy ensures that ALL passengers can bring personal items onboard.

The bag weight assumptions are low for the average roller bag which are probably closer to 3+ kg based on the listed manufacturer specifications.

The size of the bags were not checked using a Spirit/Frontier style sizer. The bags were only checked for weight. I had a medium bag checked.

GUWonder Jun 22, 2023 4:23 pm


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 35354606)
This is the reason planes have luggage storage at the bottom of their fuselages. Charging passengers money to avail of them (for your standard travel bag) is ludicrous when it clearly costs us aggregate time. I get the fact that some airports are slow at delivering bags; put more pressure on them.

ETA: If you had a choice of boarding your flight 30 minutes earlier than needed or waiting in baggage claim at PDX for 30 minutes, why would you choose the former?

That’s sort of a false choice. Checking in baggage — unless perhaps at the gate, if it gets that far — means having to show up earlier at the airport than when not checking in luggage. Also, checked luggage’s mishandling rates are pretty bad and seem to get worse as airlines go down this route of trying to increasingly monetize hold luggage space and charge for what was accepted as cabin baggage without issue even on full flights 15-25 years ago during the busiest periods.

Putting pressure on airlines and airports over baggage handling to get major improvements anytime soon? That’s like trying to find a natural snowball — not hail — on the steps of the Capitol in DC in June.


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