Pilot Creates Delay To Avoid Wake Turbulence
What would happen if, with planes lined up to take off, one pilot determines that air traffic control did not allow enough time for the previous departure wake turbulence to dissipate and he intentionally dilly dallies on his own takeoff, perhaps filling the 15 or so seconds with a little banter on the subject with ATC.
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I'd give the pilot a prize. He acts from experience. Having once experienced severe wake turbulence upon landing (where the plane was tilting sharply from side to side, wingtips pointed toward the runway over the SFO runway) where the pilot had to promptly get us back to altitude, I will not question the pilot's action.
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+1000
safety first … the captain has the final say |
The FAA's Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM) offers the following guidance.
Pilots may request additional separation (i.e., 2 minutes instead of 4 or 5 miles) for wake turbulence avoidance. This request should be made as soon as practical on ground control and at least before taxiing onto the runway. NOTE- 14 CFR Section 91.3(a) states: “The pilot-in-command of an aircraft is directly responsible for and is the final authority as to the operation of that aircraft.” |
Originally Posted by AllanJ
(Post 33322665)
What would happen if, with planes lined up to take off, one pilot determines that air traffic control did not allow enough time for the previous departure wake turbulence to dissipate and he intentionally dilly dallies on his own takeoff, perhaps filling the 15 or so seconds with a little banter on the subject with ATC.
As the AIM states in the above post, the extra delay should be taken prior to entering the runway. |
Originally Posted by Tanic
(Post 33324476)
Of course this may create a situation where an arriving aircraft is forced to go around while the bantering pilot dilly dallies on the runway in use.
As the AIM states in the above post, the extra delay should be taken prior to entering the runway. |
Thanks.
Oh, by the way, the pilot in question will not be aware of much. All he knows is that the previous plane took off and, after a short pause, ATC gave him the go ahead. In this hypothetical scenario the pilot judges that by the time he would get into position on the runway and should take off himself, the previous plane would not be far enough away. So, still at the front of the takeoff queue, the pilot places his request to ATC for more time. |
Originally Posted by AllanJ
(Post 33327841)
Thanks.
Oh, by the way, the pilot in question will not be aware of much. All he knows is that the previous plane took off and, after a short pause, ATC gave him the go ahead. In this hypothetical scenario the pilot judges that by the time he would get into position on the runway and should take off himself, the previous plane would not be far enough away. So, still at the front of the takeoff queue, the pilot places his request to ATC for more time. |
Originally Posted by AllanJ
(Post 33327841)
Oh, by the way, the pilot in question will not be aware of much. All he knows is that the previous plane took off and, after a short pause, ATC gave him the go ahead. In this hypothetical scenario the pilot judges that by the time he would get into position on the runway and should take off himself, the previous plane would not be far enough away. So, still at the front of the takeoff queue, the pilot places his request to ATC for more time.
As always, the pilot in command is the final authority to operate the aircraft, but could be required to leave the runway for other traffic. |
Originally Posted by AllanJ
(Post 33322665)
What would happen if, with planes lined up to take off, one pilot determines that air traffic control did not allow enough time for the previous departure wake turbulence to dissipate and he intentionally dilly dallies on his own takeoff, perhaps filling the 15 or so seconds with a little banter on the subject with ATC.
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Originally Posted by Tanic
(Post 33329388)
When wake turbulence is involved, takeoff clearances are predicated on weight class of preceding aircraft (small/large/heavy/super) and the succeeding aircraft. It can be measured in whole minutes 2/3/4 or radar distance, but would not be a short pause. The takeoff clearance cannot be issued until the prescribed interval in time or distance has passed.
As always, the pilot in command is the final authority to operate the aircraft, but could be required to leave the runway for other traffic. |
Originally Posted by Eastbay1K
(Post 33329357)
But oh, by the way, the pilot in question would know the aircraft was, for instance, a 757, and s/he has had previous wake turbulence experience above and beyond the normal, etc.
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This is mainly an issue with 757's, right? They aren't quite heavy, but they throw off a nasty wake...
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Originally Posted by pinniped
(Post 33331358)
This is mainly an issue with 757's, right? They aren't quite heavy, but they throw off a nasty wake...
Another problem is the 757s excellent climb performance. It was able to climb more steeply than most of the aircraft hat might be following it which put those aircraft into its wake more often than would normally occur. |
Originally Posted by AllanJ
(Post 33327841)
ATC gave him the go ahead.
I suppose it could be different if the same runway is being used for take-offs and landings whereas one used just for take-offs wouldn't be as critical. |
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