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Covid19 will end First and Business Class travel?

Covid19 will end First and Business Class travel?

Old May 18, 20, 10:07 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by MiamiAirport Formerly NY George View Post
No I don't see Business and First Class going away. What I do see is certain airlines (AA being at the top of the list) trying to cheapen the premium product my reducing meals or meal quantity, take away beverage service on certain routes, no pre departure beverage, no more blanket and pillows in domestic F, etc. Hopefully they will have to retreat on some of these moves but you can already see it coming.
If you take what premium service makes of, there is nothing left as wide and secluded seats. If that is the new definition of F and C class, then I will certainly not pay for that scam!
Scrapping the essence of premium travel would not help airlines get their yields back. They will see more high yield pax retreating. These people will beconsidering jet chartes with few other people, customised catering and other amenities.
A321 long range versions with max. 50 pax with First class suites, catering and service. That is FF's dream..and probably the next generation of premium travel. Less pax and crew, less contamination risks.
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Old May 18, 20, 10:31 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by cmd320 View Post
If anything I could see demand for premium cabins increasing. Those who ordinarily wouldn't have paid the premium may be swayed by the added bonus of being more isolated from other passengers.
The other side of this is that if F&B and other amenities are reduced or eliminated, customer will view premium cabins as less valuable and therefore be less likely to be willing to pay a premium if the only benefit is more space during the flight. Whether the demand curve shifts up or down as a result of these two opposing effects is indeterminate and probably cannot be elucidated from big data at this point.
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Old May 18, 20, 6:38 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Redmax View Post
Covid-19 do really change the perception in travelling safely. Social distancing has surely made the suite concept more demanding than ever before.
It would be culturally unacceptable to position health safety as a premium perk and associate the tickets most people can afford with heightened risk.
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Old May 18, 20, 6:52 pm
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Originally Posted by BearX220 View Post
It would be culturally unacceptable to position health safety as a premium perk and associate the tickets most people can afford with heightened risk.
We already do that. Exit rows cost more and it guarantees you can be the first one out the door.
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Old May 19, 20, 8:02 am
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Originally Posted by cmd320 View Post
We already do that. Exit rows cost more and it guarantees you can be the first one out the door.
People don't buy exit row seats for the crash survival margin. They want another couple inches of legroom, that's all. It's a comfort play, not a safety / health play.
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Old May 19, 20, 8:20 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by BearX220 View Post
People don't buy exit row seats for the crash survival margin. They want another couple inches of legroom, that's all. It's a comfort play, not a safety / health play.
I absolutely know people who sit in the exit row because they believe they will be more likely to survive in the event of an accident. I'm not saying I personally believe that, however there are certainly people out there who do.

I don't believe most airlines would market F/J as being a 'safer' option moving forward, but there will certainly be people who purchase it under that guise and to have more separation from others in the cabin.
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Old May 19, 20, 8:21 am
  #22  
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For the coach passenger flying will only get more miserable. Don't think for one second airlines will ever put health concerns before profits. Airlines will cut capacity to the point that every Y seat has a butt in it. Miss a flight due to weather or ATC you will find yourself paying for a hotel room for a few days or sleeping at the airport (unshowered). I would not be surprised to see UA, DL and AA take part of Y and make it a BE section (28 inch pitch).

Presumably higher end will pay for a more "premium experience" even if said "premium experience" sucks but is a lot better than the Y alternative.
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Old May 19, 20, 2:14 pm
  #23  
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Airlines nowadays are jumping on the health waggon and doing their best to sell airline travel as clean and contagious free as possible. Full body suits, goggles, masks etc. for the crews. It is surely giving you the vibes of hospital services than premium services.
I know it sounds condescending but it is getting more Eco standards and all these reductions in the name of health measures. Highly doubt it that it is entirely for health.

Now way I will pay premium fare for substandard services. Even the Bumrungrad Hospital in BKK nows better how to treat their customers in a premium manner!
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Old May 19, 20, 2:20 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by BearX220 View Post
It would be culturally unacceptable to position health safety as a premium perk and associate the tickets most people can afford with heightened risk.
Well, that is what this pandemic has made it. The whole aviation industry is trying to find a formula ( beside having the vaccine) to get pax flying in Eco and Premium classes inorder to have revenues again.But the pax are humanely afraid of any person behind, infront or beside them who is not safe! Even a slight cough nowadays might get you in a fight or being quarantined. Or the whole flight cancelled for the worst!
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Old May 20, 20, 2:59 am
  #25  
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I thought Covid would increase demand for premium seats. I thought people would want to sit further away from others.
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Old May 20, 20, 3:42 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Annalisa12 View Post
I thought Covid would increase demand for premium seats. I thought people would want to sit further away from others.
How much distance is needed in a plane in which space is limited. Even though a lot of people assume the HEPA Filters are good, are these good enough to filter the recycled air from Covid19?
So these are two important factors: distance and fresh uncontaminated air, both very limited in the flight. The longer the flight goes, the probable risk of contamination grows as well. Why are the crew the only ones in full suits, goggles, masks etc. Everybody should get the same health equipments. Then very important having to eat and drink during the flight. Risk of contamination is higher due to exposure.
Before Covid-19 we are aware of unhygenic situation during our flight and we just often ignored it. Well, this time it is more than just rashes or light infection, it could lands you in the ICU and probably death.
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Old May 20, 20, 5:08 am
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Originally Posted by Redmax View Post
Before Covid-19 we are aware of unhygenic situation during our flight and we just often ignored it. Well, this time it is more than just rashes or light infection, it could lands you in the ICU and probably death.
It's this view that is causing the current panic, and it's also this view that will need to be challenged before life gets back to normal.
You will not probably die if you contract COVID-19. The Infection Fatality Rate is hotly disputed, but best guesses are between 0.02% (the Stanford study published yesterday) and 0.9%. This will clearly be massively variable depending upon age and general health, with it much higher for vulnerable people and lower for less vulnerable people. So, the vast majority of people who get it will not die. And, of course, you're unlikely to get it in the first place.

Fast forward a year or two and the picture will look very different: there will likely be far fewer cases in the community so the chances of contracting it are lower, the methods of treating it will be more effective and we will have learnt more about how to behave to minimise its spread. In such a scenario, it will become tolerably safe to fly again.
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Old May 20, 20, 5:18 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by lhrsfo View Post
It's this view that is causing the current panic, and it's also this view that will need to be challenged before life gets back to normal.
You will not probably die if you contract COVID-19. The Infection Fatality Rate is hotly disputed, but best guesses are between 0.02% (the Stanford study published yesterday) and 0.9%. This will clearly be massively variable depending upon age and general health, with it much higher for vulnerable people and lower for less vulnerable people. So, the vast majority of people who get it will not die. And, of course, you're unlikely to get it in the first place.

Fast forward a year or two and the picture will look very different: there will likely be far fewer cases in the community so the chances of contracting it are lower, the methods of treating it will be more effective and we will have learnt more about how to behave to minimise its spread. In such a scenario, it will become tolerably safe to fly again.
The only tolerable way to fly again safe like before Covid-19 is to have a vaccine against it!.
Flying right now is not safe!. Your numbers are doubtful. Just be aware how many thousands of people across the world have died. Young, old, with previous health history or not, this virus can kill anybody and without any prior notice!
In the end of the day it is your own personal choice getting the kick of flying right now and probably get infected or just wait and have patience till a vaccine is finally found.
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Last edited by Redmax; May 20, 20 at 7:26 am
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Old May 20, 20, 7:06 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by lhrsfo View Post
It's this view that is causing the current panic.
I would not characterize prudent precautions in the face of yawning unknowns as "panic."

Originally Posted by llhrsfo View Post
The Infection Fatality Rate is hotly disputed, but best guesses are between 0.02% (the Stanford study published yesterday) and 0.9%...So, the vast majority of people who get it will not die. And, of course, you're unlikely to get it in the first place.
Public perception matters more. This morning's Johns Hopkins data (US only): 1,528,661 cases, 91,938 deaths, which is 6% of positive diagnoses. (Global picture: 4,922,137 cases, 323,855 deaths, or 6.6% of cases.) Those are the numbers people understand, and most will not opt to increase their exposure to a disease they think has a 6% chance of killing them. You likely would not board a flight with a 6% chance of crashing.

Originally Posted by =lhrsfo View Post
Fast forward a year or two and the picture will look very different: there will likely be far fewer cases in the community so the chances of contracting it are lower, the methods of treating it will be more effective and we will have learnt more about how to behave to minimise its spread...
That all depends on a high degree of public belief / consensus / cooperation which is not currently in evidence. I believe a year from now we'll be looking at 150k-200k total US fatalities, continued flareups, and a lot of politically inspired resistance to community-protection measures, let alone a vaccine.
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Old May 20, 20, 1:16 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by BearX220 View Post
I would not characterize prudent precautions in the face of yawning unknowns as "panic."



Public perception matters more. This morning's Johns Hopkins data (US only): 1,528,661 cases, 91,938 deaths, which is 6% of positive diagnoses. (Global picture: 4,922,137 cases, 323,855 deaths, or 6.6% of cases.) Those are the numbers people understand, and most will not opt to increase their exposure to a disease they think has a 6% chance of killing them. You likely would not board a flight with a 6% chance of crashing.



That all depends on a high degree of public belief / consensus / cooperation which is not currently in evidence. I believe a year from now we'll be looking at 150k-200k total US fatalities, continued flareups, and a lot of politically inspired resistance to community-protection measures, let alone a vaccine.
Except this leaves out how many people have been infected. Data suggest it's a larger number than thought and for a healthy person under age 65 there would be no or little symptoms. Even 200K out of nearly 330 million people is a very small percentage. Everything in life has risk. I'm healthy and keep my self in good physical shape. There are far more scarier things to me than COVID 19, at the top losing my job in the current economic environment. That's what the average person should be shaking over.
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