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-   -   Application of DOT Rules to OTAs (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/2015362-application-dot-rules-otas.html)

k374 Apr 10, 2020 3:44 pm


Originally Posted by garykung (Post 32280736)
As I have said previously, Often1 was correct that DOT's does not have jurisdiction over TAs, but the airline..

Yes, that is correct... the DOT does not have jurisdiction but you are free to sue the TA. Any TA with half a brain would just refund you rather than deal with the complexities and cost of a lawsuit since they are not footing the bill anyway, they are just giving back the refund that they got from the airline.

What is interesting though is that even though I bought my ticket from an OTA on my CC the line item has the airline name on it. So, my guess is that the Airline gave a percentage or fixed fee to the TA for their service.

TBD Apr 10, 2020 4:19 pm


Originally Posted by k374 (Post 32282646)
What is interesting though is that even though I bought my ticket from an OTA on my CC the line item has the airline name on it. So, my guess is that the Airline gave a percentage or fixed fee to the TA for their service.

That's the ARC process I mention above. It also why some people are successful in getting a refund directly from the airline (so long as the airline issued the ticket on their stock).

And yes, the travel agency gets a commission from the airline.

ft101 Apr 10, 2020 6:49 pm


Originally Posted by k374 (Post 32282642)
exactly... if I order something from an online shopping portal and they have to order it in turn from a supplier, the supplier does not deliver then the online shopping portal can't keep my money, LOL! If the contract isn't fulfilled down the line then it implies the contract with the consumer isn't fulfilled as well. If the airline refunds the fare the the refund is due to the passenger.

Different business model with different Terms and Conditions. The shopping portal prices this into it's overheads and charges a little bit extra to every customer. The TA doesn't and charges a lot to a few customers. It's big news now because those few customers have just turned into a landslide and realised saving a few pounds/dollars/euros on a ticket to be subject to an intermediary's terms maybe wasn't such a good idea, and the noise is being heard.

ft101 Apr 10, 2020 6:54 pm


Originally Posted by k374 (Post 32282646)
Yes, that is correct... the DOT does not have jurisdiction but you are free to sue the TA. Any TA with half a brain would just refund you rather than deal with the complexities and cost of a lawsuit since they are not footing the bill anyway, they are just giving back the refund that they got from the airline.

They still have to pay all their costs which cancellation fees contributes to. In the current situation you'd like to think that instead of seeing it as a windfall they'd give something back by reducing their charges. If they don't then we all know exactly how they treat us and should respond accordingly.

garykung Apr 10, 2020 9:28 pm


Originally Posted by k374 (Post 32282646)
Yes, that is correct... the DOT does not have jurisdiction but you are free to sue the TA. Any TA with half a brain would just refund you rather than deal with the complexities and cost of a lawsuit since they are not footing the bill anyway, they are just giving back the refund that they got from the airline.

If a small push by DOT can do the job, why bother with the justice system?


Originally Posted by k374 (Post 32282646)
What is interesting though is that even though I bought my ticket from an OTA on my CC the line item has the airline name on it. So, my guess is that the Airline gave a percentage or fixed fee to the TA for their service.

Some. Not all TA tickets are charged directly to the customer's credit card.

k374 Apr 12, 2020 10:56 pm

so if the OTA refuses the refund what are my options? I can't go directly to the airline can I? I expect the OTA to give me a reason why they can't give me a refund, it should be dependent on the airline not refunding them so it amounts to the same thing essentially.. i.e. if the OTA is unable to get the refund it's because the airline is denying it, hence I should be able to lodge a complaint against the airline with the DOT.

warakorn Apr 13, 2020 2:12 pm

With most OTAs, actually the ticketing airline is charging the credit card directly. The OTA may run a second charge for its fee. A chargeback for the airline ticket costs should work out fine there.

Often1 Apr 13, 2020 2:52 pm


Originally Posted by k374 (Post 32288320)
so if the OTA refuses the refund what are my options? I can't go directly to the airline can I? I expect the OTA to give me a reason why they can't give me a refund, it should be dependent on the airline not refunding them so it amounts to the same thing essentially.. i.e. if the OTA is unable to get the refund it's because the airline is denying it, hence I should be able to lodge a complaint against the airline with the DOT.

Many carriers are now simply issuing refunds on demand when they have been paid by the OTA and then using their ADM process to clawback whatever fee the OTA earned. Thus, you may want to try the carrier, even though you would ordinarily be told no.

If none of this works, simply initiate a chargeback. The card issuer (bank) will sort it. You should supply a copy of your e-ticket receipt, the cancellation notice, your request for a refund, and the denial (or a note that you have no heard back).

k374 May 1, 2020 8:33 am


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 32290248)

If none of this works, simply initiate a chargeback. The card issuer (bank) will sort it. You should supply a copy of your e-ticket receipt, the cancellation notice, your request for a refund, and the denial (or a note that you have no heard back).

I have not received a cancellation notice yet but my reservation code no longer works on the Air New Zealand site (says invalid reservation)

I contacted the OTA and they want me to fill out a refund request form on their site but I don't want to do that because I don't want to be the one to initiate a refund which would imply me trying to cancel.

Not sure how to go about it, my flight is August 28 so it's a ways off so should I give it more time to wait for a cancel notice or proactively pursue it?

k374 May 1, 2020 7:46 pm

Update: I talked to the OTA and they insisted that they will deduct 10-15% of the ticket price as a service charge and refund me the rest. At this time I did not discuss anything... I will get the refund first and take it up with either the CC company, BBB or the DOT for the difference later.

ft101 May 1, 2020 7:52 pm


Originally Posted by k374 (Post 32342136)
Update: I talked to the OTA and they insisted that they will deduct 10-15% of the ticket price as a service charge and refund me the rest. At this time I did not discuss anything... I will get the refund first and take it up with either the CC company, BBB or the DOT for the difference later.

Don't you expect the OTA to be paid for their work?

k374 May 1, 2020 8:02 pm


Originally Posted by ft101 (Post 32342143)
Don't you expect the OTA to be paid for their work?

No, not if the customer did not receive anything of value. If you bought something online, they took your money and a week later told you it is out of stock do you expect to pay the company for using their website? Of course not, that is ridiculous.

Edit - I actually work for a ticketing company (Entertainment/Sports), we've had to refund people due to event cancellations. We are not keeping people's money when the event is cancelled, as I said not only is that illegal it is downright stupid.

paperwastage May 1, 2020 8:17 pm

what does OTA contract say about refunds/cancellations?

it's not uncommon/unheard-of for them to charge a handling fee.

if fee is too high in relation to the ticket and above a token value (eg $50 fee for $60 flight isn't that high), you can try complaining to DOT under 49 US Code 41712


https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/41712

(41712 does regulate OTAs)

good luck though. 10-15% is not high, unless you can point to another place on the OTA contract where they put a smaller number



do note that once you request/agree to a refund, it must be processed within 7/20 business days. this includes OTAs. many airlines/OTAs have been dinged for not following this (no, you don't get the penalty, it goes into DOT)
https://www.transportation.gov/indiv...ection/refunds

k374 May 1, 2020 8:29 pm


Originally Posted by paperwastage (Post 32342166)
what does OTA contract say about refunds/cancellations?

It isn't a customer cancellation. A customer cancellation incurs a service fee, that is understood.

This is a cancellation of the flight by the airline... the service that was bought was deemed unavailable by the airline. Hence the entire transaction is void. A fee is charged for a service rendered, not for services that don't actually exist.

paperwastage May 1, 2020 8:34 pm


Originally Posted by k374 (Post 32342184)
It isn't a customer cancellation. A customer cancellation incurs a service fee, that is understood.

This is a cancellation of the flight by the airline... the service that was bought was deemed unavailable by the airline. Hence the entire transaction is void. A fee is charged for a service rendered, not for services that don't actually exist.

true.

well, OP is free to take it up with DOT under "Unfair practices" complaint. trying to see if someone successfully did one (most of the filings are usually for unadvertised all-in prices or lumping airline YQ under taxes)


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