Should the United States allow foreign airlines to fly domestic routes?
Mar 10, 2020, 4:40 pm
#47
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 383
All the time. Do you know how easy it is to get and renew SA Gold status on Aegean? Once you get it, you get a lot of the benefits you describe here -- including much more frequent upgrades than you would ever get with that status on United.
I'm flying RT from IST to NAV next month on Turkish, whose service is X times better than United (where X is an arbitrarily large integer). The price: $45. A similar flight (say MFR to SFO) on pathetic United with its surly flight attendants and filthy cabins runs about $400.
With the $300+ difference I guess I can handle a cancellation or change fee. Hell I can rebook from scratch 9 times (!) and I would still be better off than I would be on United. Give me a break.
It's not just Turkey. Take a look at Air Asia. Again, the fares are so much lower, you can just discard a ticket you want to change and you'll still be way better off than on United. Plus, you get nice service from FAs who take pride in what they're doing.
I'm flying RT from IST to NAV next month on Turkish, whose service is X times better than United (where X is an arbitrarily large integer). The price: $45. A similar flight (say MFR to SFO) on pathetic United with its surly flight attendants and filthy cabins runs about $400.
With the $300+ difference I guess I can handle a cancellation or change fee. Hell I can rebook from scratch 9 times (!) and I would still be better off than I would be on United. Give me a break.
It's not just Turkey. Take a look at Air Asia. Again, the fares are so much lower, you can just discard a ticket you want to change and you'll still be way better off than on United. Plus, you get nice service from FAs who take pride in what they're doing.
Mar 10, 2020, 6:20 pm
#48
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: UA AA
Posts: 57
Probably less concerned with that and morseo with some country like China buying and then pushing the new Chinese made airplanes.
Mar 11, 2020, 4:21 am
#50
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,304
I don't believe that any other country allows the American carriers to fly domestic routes in their countries. Why then should any other country's carriers be allowed domestic routes in the US. Many airlines from other countries are heavily subsidized by their governments. As such, they could literally bankrupt the American carriers by charging fares that were below profitability for a period of time to get rid of the American carriers. Then boost the fares sky high after that is accomplished.
Mar 11, 2020, 7:22 am
#51
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: WAS
Programs: Free Agent
Posts: 1,757
Instead of trying to match the U.S. market with a foreign market of the same size, just require the passenger count to be the same, e.g. AC can fly 100,000 people a year if U.S. airlines can fly 100,000 people a year on Canadian domestic routes.
We would also need to require the foreign airline to not be subsidized by the government. Otherwise the result is U.S. airlines are forced out of business, or the federal government has to do the same and susidize American carriers.
We would also need to require the foreign airline to not be subsidized by the government. Otherwise the result is U.S. airlines are forced out of business, or the federal government has to do the same and susidize American carriers.
Mar 12, 2020, 11:05 am
#52
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: SAN, BOS
Programs: AS MVPG100K, BAEC Gold, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Plat,
Posts: 2,279
My hope is that if (when) the airlines get bailed out, one of the conditions is to pass a US version of EU 261, maybe also including pitch requirements so we don’t have to debate about reclining ever again
Mar 12, 2020, 2:29 pm
#53
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
This should help clear the fog:
https://www.economist.com/leaders/20...rican-aviation
The bottom line is that Govt. legislation prevents 1) Foreign competition 2) Foreign ownership of U.S. airlines 3) The ability of US citizens to sue airlines for contract breaches. Local govts like San Francisco's have compounded the problem by allowing politically preferred airlines to monopolize gates and landing slots. As a result, US airlines provide passengers with the worst value proposition in the world (with FF programs being part of that proposition).
Remember how crappy American cars used to be back in the 70s? When foreign competition was allowed in, the US mfgrs really upped their game. Now you can buy some really great American cars. Let's get that dynamic working on the airline industry.
https://www.economist.com/leaders/20...rican-aviation
The bottom line is that Govt. legislation prevents 1) Foreign competition 2) Foreign ownership of U.S. airlines 3) The ability of US citizens to sue airlines for contract breaches. Local govts like San Francisco's have compounded the problem by allowing politically preferred airlines to monopolize gates and landing slots. As a result, US airlines provide passengers with the worst value proposition in the world (with FF programs being part of that proposition).
Remember how crappy American cars used to be back in the 70s? When foreign competition was allowed in, the US mfgrs really upped their game. Now you can buy some really great American cars. Let's get that dynamic working on the airline industry.
I wouldn't be opposed to some case-by-case competition allowances, but I'm wary that we'll get Ryanair and its ilk rather than, say, BA running LAX-JFK-LHR tag flights.
Mar 12, 2020, 2:59 pm
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 20,992
Link---> https://onemileatatime.com/qantas-fined-jfk-lax/
<snip>
The Department of Transportation argues that under US cabotage laws, Qantas should have only been allowed to sell seats on this flight to those connecting onto or off of Qantas flights to Australia. However, in 2015 and 2016, Qantas sold seats on this flight in connection with international flights on partner airlines. Specifically, on their website Qantas would allow passengers to book their New York to Los Angeles flight in conjunction with codeshare flights from Los Angeles to Tahiti on Air Tahiti Nui, as well as codeshare flights between Los Angeles and Auckland on American
<snip>
The Department of Transportation argues that under US cabotage laws, Qantas should have only been allowed to sell seats on this flight to those connecting onto or off of Qantas flights to Australia. However, in 2015 and 2016, Qantas sold seats on this flight in connection with international flights on partner airlines. Specifically, on their website Qantas would allow passengers to book their New York to Los Angeles flight in conjunction with codeshare flights from Los Angeles to Tahiti on Air Tahiti Nui, as well as codeshare flights between Los Angeles and Auckland on American
<snip>