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Reverse culture shock

Reverse culture shock

Old Jun 30, 2019, 9:28 am
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Fraser
This seems like a gross exaggeration. I can't think of any major airport in Europe where you routinely board through a remote stand.
I think it's more common if you fly (U)LCCs (e.g. Ryanair), though I could be wrong on that.

Though speaking of jetbridges, I wish US airports had windows on those like when I flew to BNE a while ago. I think they don't due to fire code issues, however, or at least last time I researched it.
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Old Jun 30, 2019, 9:32 am
  #47  
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Originally Posted by 1P
People who condemn US airports should try using the European ones. Most of the time, you will debark the plane at a remote stand and be bussed to the terminal. The same thing when departing: most of the time a bus will take you to the plane. The great thing about US airports is that nearly all the time you enter and leave the plane via a jetbridge, except for the small commuter planes. At London Heathrow's brand new Terminal 2, anyone leaving on a longhaul flight has over a mile to walk to get to the gate. ...?!

I agree about the exorbitant Calufornia wine prices and tasting prices. The way to get round the tasting fee is to pay for one and have your spouse share the same glass. Since they always pour too much for a single taste, it's easy to share. And don't swallow the wine, swirl it in the mouth and spit it out. On the other hand, I see most American wine tasters swallow, which is not advisable if you are tasting, as I do, 40-50 wines a day. I buy direct from wineries in France as well as S. Cal. I would estimate that on average what I can buy for $45-50 in the Napa Valley will only cost me 18 Euros in France.

The thing that strikes me most about California is that no one walks anywhere,.People jog or run on the sidewalks, but you seldom see someone out walking. The whole state is set up for driving. Same thing in Texas.

Anyone who thinks that 3 bedrooms + 1 bath is normal outside the US should visit the UK, where an ensuite bathroom in the master bedroom and a family bathroom for everyone else is now becoming the norm.
Yikes. You go out of your way to buy wine from wineries in *Southern* California? That would be San Diego and the LA area.

Napa, Sonoma, etc. are considered Northern California.

ADDED (in response to some other posts above): Unfortunately the designers and architects of many foreign airports (including new ones) do not plan for sufficient AC in the terminals. For example, CDG T2 is disgustingly hot (and humid) in summer as are NRT, HKG, AMS, ICN (including the new T2), etc. It's really unpleasant, and I'm someone who doesn't set the thermostat very low at all.



Last edited by MSPeconomist; Jun 30, 2019 at 9:37 am
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Old Jun 30, 2019, 9:38 am
  #48  
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In Japan, staff will often “案内します” (walk with the customer) to what he/she is looking to buy.

In the US, IF I can find an employee, I’ll get a vaguely directional hand gesture that might as well be the “bird.” Target is my usual example.
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Old Jun 30, 2019, 9:45 am
  #49  
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Originally Posted by BuildingMyBento
In Japan, staff will often “案内します” (walk with the customer) to what he/she is looking to buy.

In the US, IF I can find an employee, I’ll get a vaguely directional hand gesture that might as well be the “bird.” Target is my usual example.
I think it depends on where in the country when it comes to the US. Stores in more rural areas — including Target (but not Walmart so much) — are more likely to have employees that walk (or offer to walk) the customer to the area where they need to go to find the item being searched for. That is if there are employees on the floor and in the aisles and not tied to register/counter/backroom duty. Going from say a Target in say downtown Chicago to a Target in say rural Minnesota doesn’t give me culture shock, it’s just that I expect there to be regional differences of this sort based on a variety of factors.

Personally, I don’t like even being asked for help while shopping; and if I ask for help to locate an item or section, I probably want to shop in relative peace without an employee hovering over me or even lingering around close by and potentially distracting me. Maybe I am just not that easily shocked since I’ve been exposed to differences a lot and just count on it being usual. I generally don’t like shopping in stores in Asia because it seems like I am more likely to be “helped” than I want to be.

Last edited by GUWonder; Jun 30, 2019 at 9:53 am
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Old Jun 30, 2019, 9:58 am
  #50  
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It can also be intimidating to walk into small grocery stores in Europe and be expected to order verbally (in a foreign language) when often I want to look at the package in detail to try to figure out whether the item is what I want (For instance are the potato chips salted or flavored? Instant or regular rice/oatmeal? Microwaveable? Is the wine bottled at the chateau?).
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Old Jun 30, 2019, 10:11 am
  #51  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder


I think it depends on where in the country when it comes to the US. Stores in more rural areas — including Target (but not Walmart so much) — are more likely to have employees that walk (or offer to walk) the customer to the area where they need to go to find the item being searched for. That is if there are employees on the floor and in the aisles and not tied to register/counter/backroom duty. Going from say a Target in say downtown Chicago to a Target in say rural Minnesota doesn’t give me culture shock, it’s just that I expect there to be regional differences of this sort based on a variety of factors.

Personally, I don’t like even being asked for help while shopping; and if I ask for help to locate an item or section, I probably want to shop in relative peace without an employee hovering over me or even lingering around close by and potentially distracting me. Maybe I am just not that easily shocked since I’ve been exposed to differences a lot and just count on it being usual. I generally don’t like shopping in stores in Asia because it seems like I am more likely to be “helped” than I want to be.
I don't like to be "followed/asked to be helped" either, but there's a difference between good customer service and...the US.
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Old Jun 30, 2019, 10:32 am
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by invisible
Bay Area is the only place where I lived in US, spending fifteen years there from late 90x till early 2010s, living in Campbell, Pleasanton, Fremont, Mountain View, Los Altos, Cupertino and Sunnyvale.

Totally I lived in six different countries, including the current one, but only two I called 'home'.


Where I live there is no minimum wage, loaf of bread can go in price from app USD $1.5 to USD $10 and more, depending where you buy. Gallon of gas costs close to USD $6.3, but at the same time cheapest new car you can buy will cost of USD $100k or more - that's for Toyota Corolla or equivalent.

The percent of gas prices and loaf of bread I don't think is a reliable indicator because majority of the population does not own cars and do not eat bread on daily bases. But if you believe statistics, median monthly salary is close to USD $5K.
The two questions were to gauge what percent of min. wage does it take to buy various items to compare how expensive places are...

Seems you were exposed to the highest rent etc expenses in USS. Check newspapers, net, ads etc and see how cheap US is compared to others.
I have also lived in three continents and traveled a lot overseas, I say there is no cheaper place than USA to buy most of the things ! Electronics in Hong Kong, China, Japan eyc, can't beat USA. Gotta to know where to buy what. Just get onto Amazon.
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Old Jun 30, 2019, 10:45 am
  #53  
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Originally Posted by BuildingMyBento
I don't like to be "followed/asked to be helped" either, but there's a difference between good customer service and...the US.
I find big shop customer service in Europe to be no better than in the US. I find it worse on average in Europe at big retailers, and probably would find it even more so upon trying to control for how likely it is the store check-out clerk can afford to live within as short commuting distance to the workplace as the store’s customers residing the closest to the store.

I don’t end up in big Target-size, non-grocery shops in Asia too often, so I can’t say as much about their customer service. I’ve been to a lot of rather large grocery stores in Asia — I have myself or had family living in various parts of SE, S and SW Asia, and doing a few grocery runs on visits has been unavoidable there — Europe, the US, Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, and Chile, so I can more comprehensively compare that. By measure of service in grocery stores, I would say the US isn’t bad in this regard — rather it’s comparable enough or even better than what I would say to expect in most parts of the OECD world.

For value for money spent to buy goods, the US is about as good as it gets when you consider what the local median income level can buy. Housing in and around major metropolitan areas and some services in the US can tend to be much less affordable for the average local, but that kind of dynamic is true around a lot of the world when it comes to countries that aren’t major sources of intercontinental refugee flows. Most Swedes can’t afford to move to Stockholm without taking a huge lifestyle hit of sort. Most Indians can’t afford to move to Bombay without taking a huge lifestyle hit of sort. Most Americans can’t afford to move to San Francisco without taking a huge lifestyle hit of sort. Rather for many Americans, the culture shock would be to see the extreme rural poverty that still exists in parts of the Deep South and Appalachia. I have relatives who grew up in South and SE Asia and were used to seeing poverty on the streets. Oh were they shocked to see how bad it could be in parts of the US too. Now that is reverse culture shock.
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Last edited by GUWonder; Jun 30, 2019 at 10:59 am
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Old Jun 30, 2019, 11:54 am
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As an expat, I became used to having to check in with the local police station and register my presence and new address when we moved from one home or apartment to another. This is a process that included showing my passport and current resident visa and filling out local residency forms so that the government knew where Johnny Foreigner was living, and it consumed a couple of hours every time you moved.

Coming back to the states, it felt weird to just shift from one house to another, or even move from one state to another, without really needing to tell anyone officially about it. Unlike the several other countries wherein I had resided, the US government just doesn't care where I live. Freedom really is quite unregulated.

The downside, of course, is the situation of the guy who was managing the year-long local government project to clean and refit the desert wash that runs behind my house. He had come to the States from India on an H1-B visa for a California employer in the 2000s, then left that job and just moved to Arizona and started working here, gradually bringing over the members of his family onesie-twosie over time. The government apparently has no serious means to control this sort of thing, and the guy figured he was free and clear. Trump's Wall isn't going to have any effect on these scenarios.
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Old Jun 30, 2019, 12:35 pm
  #55  
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Some years back, I had to inform a bunch of young US males relocating back to the US that the USG wanted to have them file and update their US residence information each and every time they settled somewhere until a certain age. They were shocked by that, especially after years of being schooled on the US being the “land of the free”. My best bet is that many of them failed to follow the US registration law in terms of keeping there whereabouts updated at least, and thus they were likely subject to prosecution for that crime if the federal prosecutors decided to make prosecution of the relatively privileged males a priority. If they were arrested and prosecuted, that would have been a huge cultural shock for “the brat brigade”.
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Old Jun 30, 2019, 12:35 pm
  #56  
 
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Originally Posted by BearX220
Because of overlapping, slow-moving, splintered authorities and port commisions, etc. in the US, even when we do infrastructure upgrades, the results are usually frustrating. When the Seattle region finally laid light-rail track to SEA after an eon of fretful discussion, the station was positioned hundreds of yards from the terminals, with a weather-exposed walk through the parking garage to reach your flight. Install the platforms underneath the terminal, in the manner of LHR, HKG, KUL, SYD, AMS, etc? Oh, no: "Too hard." It's almost impossible in the US to do sweeping, holistic infrastructure in the Asian manner. Even when we amass the money and will, we end up doing ill-fitting layers and increments as expensively as possible.
Understand and agree. It takes forever to build a third tunnel between NJ and Manhattan. Same thing happens between VIC and NSW on high speed rail services. Sad, but almost nothing we can change.

Originally Posted by Wilbur
As an expat, I became used to having to check in with the local police station and register my presence and new address when we moved from one home or apartment to another. This is a process that included showing my passport and current resident visa and filling out local residency forms so that the government knew where Johnny Foreigner was living, and it consumed a couple of hours every time you moved.

Coming back to the states, it felt weird to just shift from one house to another, or even move from one state to another, without really needing to tell anyone officially about it. Unlike the several other countries wherein I had resided, the US government just doesn't care where I live. Freedom really is quite unregulated.

The downside, of course, is the situation of the guy who was managing the year-long local government project to clean and refit the desert wash that runs behind my house. He had come to the States from India on an H1-B visa for a California employer in the 2000s, then left that job and just moved to Arizona and started working here, gradually bringing over the members of his family onesie-twosie over time. The government apparently has no serious means to control this sort of thing, and the guy figured he was free and clear. Trump's Wall isn't going to have any effect on these scenarios.
That's because you are a US citizen. If you move from one place to another, technically you need to register your new address with DMV as a citizen/PR. If you are an expat in the U.S., you are required to do the same thing as you described - fill out a Form AR 11. Wish to travel to work in a different metro area as an expat? Good luck filling all the paperwork without a pushback nowadays.
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Old Jun 30, 2019, 5:14 pm
  #57  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Going from Singapore to the US, being a car owner is culturally shocking in how inexpensive it is?
That is the case of ordinary, not reverse culture shock.
Originally Posted by BearX220
The Costco retail model is enabled by comparatively large US homes. In homes in most of the rest of the world there is no room to store 25 rolls of toilet paper..
Mmmm, if you live with three or more teen/adult females in the same household, you might change this opinion.
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Old Jun 30, 2019, 6:19 pm
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I have lived outside the US for seven years returning for only 3 or 4 weeks each year on vacation.
The biggest shock for me is how well stocked stores are compared to the part of Indonesia where I live. On my first day or two back I will go to a walmart, target, or home depot and just walk up and down every aisle looking at everything that you can buy. Another weird one for me is the sudden realization during certain things that life hasn't paused back home. Nieces and Nephews who have jumped straight from newborn to toddler over the period of two visits.

I have also noticed that in the last seven years people in the US are less likely to return a friendly smile than I remember, or perhaps I have just become accustomed to the friendliness of Indonesians.
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Old Jun 30, 2019, 8:17 pm
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Originally Posted by Wilbur
The downside, of course, is the situation of the guy who was managing the year-long local government project to clean and refit the desert wash that runs behind my house. He had come to the States from India on an H1-B visa for a California employer in the 2000s, then left that job and just moved to Arizona and started working here, gradually bringing over the members of his family onesie-twosie over time. The government apparently has no serious means to control this sort of thing, and the guy figured he was free and clear. Trump's Wall isn't going to have any effect on these scenarios.
Unless they were coming in illegally (and I'm pretty sure that's not the case here), the government absolutely has control over it and knows who's coming and going. The legal immigration process is thorough, controlled and often times very onerous.
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Old Jul 1, 2019, 2:11 am
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The cost of wine tasting has little to do with the cost of the wine and everything to do with the way winery visits have become a new way to go out drinking--particularly for bachlorette parties for some reason. Somehow it's classy to get in a limo or party bus and get smashed at wineries, but walking between bars in town is less so. At some point the winery's tasting room ceases to be a place where they show off their product so you'll take a case home and becomes just another expensive place to be seen (or to post to Instagram).

I worked in NorCal for years and spent a lot of time visiting vineyards for work and wineries for not-work, and I had a rule--I don't pay for tasting unless you'll apply the price to a bottle. It was much easier 10 years ago than it is now. That meant that I sampled very little wine in the Napa Valley, since the party buses had already taken over. It also meant that I found a ton of really cool family-owned wineries that appeared to exist more for the owners' enjoyment than for making any real amount of money. Some of them made excellent wine and some of them, well, didn't. None of them had tour bus parking or sold license plate holders. <removes hipster/purist/whatever hat>

My contribution to the 'reverse culture shock' for the US is urban planning. Cities where land uses (and street layouts, in most cities) were planned look very different than cities that grew up organically over hundreds of years. Neither good nor bad on the whole, just different.
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