BearX220

Or accurate. The successor brand to ValuJet was not Allegiant, but AirTran, which was absorbed by Southwest in 2013. Allegiant was founded and grew independently and had nothing to do with Critter beyond an executive or two coming over.

pinniped

The main similarity is duct-taping together ancient aircraft and paying people peanuts to operate them.

Fortunately Allegiant's Mad Dogs, most of which dated from the medieval period, have been retired in favor of somewhat newer Airbii. But I still wonder if Allegiant is able to attract the top pilots and mechanics to work there.

OZFLYER86

I think the reasons U.S. airlines are making profits now, is consolidation, meaning less competition. Have no obcession with EGE, but would always use it over badly designed DEN.

DEN is great for the operator, but lousy for the consumer.

I think many americans are so used to big awful airports, which have turned into shopping malls, that they don't know a good thing.

Who wants to walk 5 kms just to get to an airport gate, past 100 shops selling overpriced goods & junk food ? (5kms is just over 3 miles)

How many of you have flown in & out of an airport like EGE recently ?

One word describes the place well

STRESSFREE

Another way to look at the A220 as a game changer, is cost per seat, which if you believe the hype, offers per seat costs lower than any B737/A319/20/21.

No idea how many flights a day EGE gets but must be a few dozen at least. We have "major" airports in Australia that have less & are almost stressfree (we don't have the stupid TSA, but we do have silly security, which any rocket scientist can get around, just like the TSA)

SE Queensland where population within 90 mins drive in non-peak hour, of Brisbane is probably 4 million. Brisbane BNE is a very busy single runway airport, (must be up there with LGW) soon to have a 2nd major runway.

90 mins drive south is Coolangatta OOL (Gold Coast) tourist area, mostly domestic, with int flights to NZ, SIN & KUL & some new Chinese destinations, bit like Honolulu Hawaii 20 years ago & 90 mins north is Maroochydore MCY, anothe rmostly tourist area, mostly domestic(about 20 international flights a year from NZ) which is similar in size to EGE.

Very high cost Qantas pulled out of OOL few years back & left it to their low cost sub Jetstar, but many business types complained & they are back. Similarly with MCY.

MCY must have similar number of flights a day as EGE, but only to SYD & MEL + few per week nonstop to ADL (& little guys in small aircraft).

All these flights are B738s/A320s except now Qantas does fly a daily B717 from SYD. Anyway, if one Australian airline was to fly the A220 then for similar or lower per seat costs, that airline could fly with more frequency, while in low season, they could possibly fly with same number of flights as now, but with less seats, similar to using a B717, but at much lower per seat costs.

OZFLYER86

geez, think the U.S. majors have killed many more people than Valuejet ever did, esp UA. UA is airline of last resort for most Australians. UA dump seats Australia/USA so they can fill aircraft.

LarryJ

Have you ever driven between Vail (EGE) and Denver? It's a 131 mile drive through mountainous terrain with significant elevation changes that takes 2:15 in good weather. Nobody going anywhere in the greater Denver area would want to fly into EGE.

Do you understand the implications of an airport at which you can not land with less then 2-3/4 (two and three-quarters) miles visibility and over an 800' ceiling? In the winter, multiple day periods will pass without a single flight being able to land at EGE.

Using reliever airports are a good option in many metropolitan areas but using EGE for travel to/from Denver is ridiculous.

OZFLYER86

yes have driven Aspen to Denver hundreds of times, esp when got U.S. work visa.

From Breck to Vail airport is an easy 60 min drive (Australians don't have to pay U.S. speeding fines). To Denver it's more like 90-120 mins depending on traffic around Denver.

I think you have an obsession with EGE. I just used it as an example.

Must be hundreds of airports with similar distances.

eg. ORD/MDW are both one huge mess. If you lived say 1/2 way between them & Gary Indiana, Gary would be an obvious choice, if eg. Moxy flew into Gary & was flying where I wanted to go nonstop, many times a day.

Sometimes I think Americans like Queueing up (lines) for everything. Australians don't line up for anything, we simply go elsewhere.

Couldn't believe it last time in USA, some shop made you wait to pay.

RETAIL 101
If someone wants to give you money, take it as fast as you can, before you change your mind.

Similarly, if someone wants to fly out of your airport, make it easy for them. Big airports no longer work efficiently. TSA always seems to be understaffed at big airports, yet overstaffed at smaller airports. Why is that ?

Qwkynuf

I flew out of TUS (Tucson, AZ) the day before yesterday. I had completed everything that I needed to in Arizona a day early, so I was hoping to standby onto a flight earlier than the 5:15pm one that I was ticketed on. So I arrived in time to (hopefully) jump on the 7:20am flight. No luck. Same on the 10:11am. And the 1:30. Ended up on my original flight after hanging around the B concourse for almost 10 hours.

The B Concourse at TUS has 11 gates. A bookstore. 2 sit-down restaurants, a burger stand, a coffee/bagel stand, a "bakery", a gift shop and a shoeshine stand. Oh - and a nursing/pumping pod.

Had I decided to fly out of PHX instead, I would have had access to at least twice as many departures, and the Delta Sky Club while I waited, as well as Clear and the full PreCheck.

tmiw

In my experience, airports outside the US are closer to being "shopping malls". For instance, you have to walk through duty free at PVR to reach the gate area for international flights. T2 at LHR also has a satellite gate area that doesn't have anything other than lounges (and where they recommend not going until close to boarding time). And so forth.

Meanwhile, the airports I've been to in the US, while they do have shopping areas, aren't so blatant about trying to make you buy things.

OZFLYER86

okay, so what's your point ?

Maybe you should have checked the loading on the earlier flights, which is easily done, by looking at airline website & try book a few seats or calling a travel agent who can instantly see availability on every flight. If fares are really high that means stuff all seats & standby not a good option.

TUS & PHX are roughly 110 miles apart, or 2 hours drive, so not exactly close, or was you business 1/2 way between the 2 ?

Pre check is probably no advantage at smaller airports.

OZFLYER86

PVR & LHR !!! In the list of top 10 worlds worst airports (really big & really ugly - avoid at all costs) !!!

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LarryJ

Breckenridge to Vail airport is 72 miles through mountainous terrain. 60 minutes would be an average speed of 72mph.

EGE airport to downtown Denver is 131 miles through mountainous terrain. 90 minutes would be an average speed of 87mph.

Neither is reasonable.

Gary's close enough to Chicago. It looks like they are have good facilities for corporate aviation but an airline terminal would have to be built for scheduled service. I guess you have to find someone willing to build out that infrastructure who believes that the demand is there to support, and pay, for it.

OZFLYER86

maybe an thinking its 60 mins drive from Frisco to EGE. As I said, Australians drive fast & don't ever have to worry about speeding fines in USA.

Didn't someone fly big aircraft into Gary ? Allegiant or ? Otherwise I would never have heard of the place. I don't study USA geography.

You don't need a big terminal for 10 flights a day on approx 120 seater A220s. Look at surf air, they operate from small terminals & supply snacks/drinks lounge type facilities for 8 seater aircraft. Just expand that idea. I don't want 20 types of junk food & myriad of shops selling overpriced Chinese junk. I want to spend as little time as possible at an airport & many business types want the same. Who has time to lounge around for hours unless you work for govt ?

COSPILOT

I cannot get beyond the hate for DEN, as OZFLYER86 called it the worst airport ever. I've been stumped all day on this one. Keep in mind OP I've flown into MEL and SYD and they are perfectly fine IMO. I personally think DEN is the best airport designed in the nation.

It would be helpful if you actually answered specific questions. Nothing in Australia is relevant to the United States, so let's focus on here. You have an obvious obsession with EGE, where would you like flights by Moxy out of EGE? You can't mention major airports, since that would screw up this paper airline A220 is the next "thing" theory. But the shopping thing is also a non issue, I walk past this stuff in multiple airports, seriously a non issue.

So, please explain how you have more experience than all of us in Colorado?

Qwkynuf

Really?!?!?! [removed]

Maybe when I booked my flight I didn't expect to finish a day early. I checked the loading on the earlier flights when I determined that I needed to, and figured that as a DM on Delta I had a pretty good shot at snagging a seat. It turns out though, that paying to get out of Tucson was a popular pursuit on that Saturday, because all four of the earlier flights were full before they got to me.

[So], it's ok to drive 130 miles (through the mountains) from EGE to downtown Denver because it suits your narrative, but it doesn't make sense to drive 110 miles down a straight, flat freeway where the speed limit is mostly 75mph to get to a better airport?
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• You asked "How many of you have flown in & out of an airport like EGE recently ?"
• I replied that I had flown out of Tucson as recently as 2 days ago.
• Tucson is similar to EGE in that it has a small number of gates and few services airside.
• Precheck is an advantage at every airport, if I don't have to take off my shoes, empty my pockets, take laptop and liquids out of my bag, and don't have to go through the nude-o-scope.
• My experience was worse in the smaller airport due to less frequency and fewer amenities.
• My experience would have been better, and I likely would have gotten home sooner, if I had forgone the "convenience" of the Tucson airport and instead driven two hours to Phoenix.
• My ticket was on Delta, which has 5 departures to west coast locations from TUS on Saturday. Phoenix, on the other hand, has 12 in the same period.
• And a Sky Club to hang out in if I don't make the standby

To summarize, had I driven out of my way to the "big" "ugly" airport in Phoenix, I would have had more options and greater comfort.

OZFLYER86

no both SYD & MEL are a mess. Ideally they they will be bulldozed, but that won't happen.

Have you ever driven a hire car to DEN ? It takes so long, just to get to the terminal & then the TSA. Best airport in USA ? Best big airport in USA ? Not much of a claim to fame.

Again have no obsession with EGE, but it is a fantastic airport for the passenger. Why would Moxy fly there ?

Walk past hundreds of shops, yes & how long does that take? Maybe check out some smaller consumer friendly airports, the ones I think moxy have in mind.

When it comes to big is beautiful, that doesn't apply to airports.