FlyerTalk Forums - Italian Point of Sale and Using Flight Legs Out of Sequence

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Using Flight Legs Out of Sequence with an Italian Point of Sale

Forgive me, and please merge, if I missed a non-airline specific thread on this. The associated and relatively new Italian regulation on using flight segments out of the ticketed order was briefly discussed in an article earlier this week, Exposed: A European Airline Ticket Loophole With Fascinating Possibilities.

For tickets issued with an Italian Point of Sale:

Quote:

In detail these airlines agreed to accept the return ticket (and for multiple-segment trips, tickets of the following routes) sold in Italy if passengers notice within 24 hours of departure (2 hours in case of round trip within the same day) of their intention to use the return ticket (and any subsequent coupons).

Here are links to published polices I found on the websites of: AF (see Ticket Use), AZ (see 3.38), BA (see 3c4), CX (see E-ticket Reminders(2)), EK, EY (see 3.3.1), KLM (see 3.4(d)), LH (see below, per the linked article), QF (see 6.5(e)), QR, SQ (see 3.3(e)), and TP (see 337).

For LH:

Quote:

Exception for tickets bought in Italy: Passengers holding a Lufthansa ticket issued in Italy (via LH.com/IT, LH ticket counter, LH call center or at a travel agency) may use the original booked return flight, out of sequence without recalculation and extra payment, even if the outbound section has not been used. In this case, please call the Lufthansa Customer Relations team latest 24 hours after the planned first ticketed flight segment.

OS has a policy on this on their website, but it is not codified in their CoC.

The article also mentions LX but I could not find this policy on their website or in random fare rules I searched.

AA and UA specifically seem to prohibit this in their Italian CoC and there is no language for honoring out of sequencing coupons in the Italian CoC's of: AI, AT, CA, CI, CZ, DL, DY, EI, HU, LO, MU, RJ, SK, SU, SV, or TK.

So, has anyone here successfully utilized this policy? If so, did you face difficulty in convincing the agent to reinstate the remaining segments?

[Edit - Mods, my apologies if this is better suited for the Information Desk forum, please move as appropriate]

I did see it with AF, purchasing a CDG-GVA through AMS on AF.it. I posted this in one of the flying blue sub-threads. Didn’t have to *use* it, but the terms and conditions from their Italian website were pretty clear as you mentioned

Quote:

Originally Posted by offvoice (Post 31134965)

It certainly opens up a world of possibilities—and potential headaches, but given the cost saving potential it could be well worth it—so I am very curious to hear others' experiences with this.

Are you ready to test this in the Italian legal system?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tentseller (Post 31136523)

Are you ready to test this in the Italian legal system?

I thought it already had been, hence the changes seen on many airlines websites?

Most of the language refers to using the return portion of the ticket, how about the second leg of the outbound? Is there clarity about that?
Also, does any OTA with .it ending counts as Italian POS?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tentseller (Post 31136523)

Are you ready to test this in the Italian legal system?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ft101 (Post 31136555)

I thought it already had been, hence the changes seen on many airlines websites?

Yes and that’s what's so interesting here. This is the result of a 2017 ruling by the Italian courts and thus has been codified into regulation and subsequently the contracts of carriage of a number of carriers. This isn’t some trick that would be in violation of the CoC, or even border on violating, rather this is explicitly permitted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nk15 (Post 31136640)

Most of the language refers to using the return portion of the ticket, how about the second leg of the outbound? Is there clarity about that?

From what I am reading in the CoC's this applies to any individual sector, see the below examples (emphasis mine),

KLM:

Quote:

In exception to Article 3.4 b above, the following applies for Passengers who purchased a KLM ticket in Italy through the www.klm.it site, KLM ticket offices, travel agencies or KLM Call Center. Such Passenger is not required to pay an Additional Fare due to a recalculation and an Administration fee pursuant to Article 3.4.c in the event such Passenger informs KLM that he/she, for whatever reason, cannot use the ticket for that flight, and will still use the ticket for further legs or in case of multi-leg tickets, for the inbound legs.

QR (QF is nearly identical):

Quote:

For tickets purchased in Italy: in the event of non-use, for any reason, of the outward flight (or of a leg of the outward flight, or a leg of the return flight), the request to maintain the validity of the ticket for the next leg or the subsequent segments may be solely accepted if previously communicated to Qatar Airways

SQ:

Quote:

Such Passenger is not required to pay an Additional Fare due to a recalculation and an Administration fee pursuant to Article 3.3 (d) in the event such Passenger informs the Carrier that he/she, for whatever reason, cannot use the ticket for that flight, and will still use the ticket for further legs or in case of multi-leg tickets, for the inbound legs.

Given that the language of these clauses is so consistent across different CoC's, I would venture to guess that they are drawing this language from either IATA guidance on this or the associated Italian regulation itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nk15 (Post 31136640)

Also, does any OTA with .it ending counts as Italian POS?

Yes, as well as any airline site ending in .it, just be careful that you are not redirected to a local site during the payment process. You could also use a VPN for ease or an Italian TA.

Sounds good, but BA and LH and maybe other airlines that have this exclusion do not have that exact language though to cover missing a segment on the outbound...

It also still feels risky...What if you miss a leg, the system auto-cancels the rest of the itinerary, you call an hour later, and they say there are no longer any seats available?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nk15 (Post 31137894)

That's a good point regarding BA, they seem to be the only one I recall specifying applicability to the "entire outbound journey." I could not find the actual clause for LH, so that's only from the linked article.

Certainly is, but nonetheless it is good to know that you can use this for some, albeit as of yet untested, degree of protection. I may give this a go soon, if so I will be report back on the specifics.

OS:

Quote:

Only in case the ticket has been bought in Italy (via OS.com/IT, OS ticket counter, OS call center or at a travel agency in Italy) the following exception is appicable:
The passenger, who has missed his outbound flight or could not take it for any reason, but would like to take the inbound flight as originally booked (without surcharge), has to inform Austrian within 24 hours starting from the time of departure of first outbound flight segment calling exclusively 02-89634296* or using the contact form which can be found on our homepage Austrian Airlines - Contacts. Otherwise we could request a surcharge for transport (balance to the tariff applicable).

quite tempting, but OS wording mentions only the inbound flight

Quote:

Originally Posted by matio_svk (Post 31143072)

OS:

quite tempting, but OS wording mentions only the inbound flight

Interesting that it's not in their CoC. I'll edit my original post to reflect.

Does anyone have any tips on genuine Italian OTAs? The only one that comes to my mind is Expedia.it, but would appreciate others tips, thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by matio_svk (Post 31146535)

Does anyone have any tips on genuine Italian OTAs? The only one that comes to my mind is Expedia.it, but would appreciate others tips, thanks

You can use https://www.skyscanner.it and https://www.momondo.it/ to find Italian OTA's selling the flight you want.

In addition to https://www.expedia.it/ there is https://www.edreams.it/.

https://www.prenota-voli.com/ and https://www.volagratis.com/voli/ are also well known.

I cannot attest to these but here are some others:
https://www.piratinviaggio.it/
https://flyuvet.it/
https://www.opodo.it/voli/
https://flighttix.it/
https://www.budgetair.it/
https://www.lol.travel/it

However, personally if I were utilizing this rule I would absolutely book directly on the carrier's Italian website or via brick and mortar TA in Italy. I would avoid adding another layer of complexity by going through on OTA. I have had to fight OTA's to comply with fare rules in the past and it was not a fun experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningforMiles (Post 31146800)

I have spent the last hour researching the OTAs and I believe it is not so easy:
The only single one confirmed to be Italian is https://www.lol.travel/it
Others:
www.volagratis.com/ - registered in Switzerland
Edreams.it - registered in Spain
https://flyuvet.it/ - Finland
https://www.opodo.it/voli/ - Spain
https://flighttix.it/ - Netherlands
https://www.budgetair.it/ - Netherlands
Out of curiosity I checked my old Edreams.com ETIX that was purchased on the US website, but the ETIX is issued in Barcelona, Spain. Thus I believe one must be extra cautious...

Added a link to the original post with CX's updated Italian CoC