Jul 20, 2019, 7:49 pm
737-Max 8 safety concerns
Jun 20, 2019, 11:56 am
#346
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Catastrophes at a giant company are about a breakdown in culture, starting with ownership, then cascading down to several layers of leadership.
Solution here is probably a bottom-up cleanout.
It's quite serious. At the moment Boeing has achieved the incredible feat of getting the must lucrative passengers to actually be concerned about what plane they are flying on,
https://www.ft.com/content/0cc0daf0-...1-51bf8f989972
"Business travellers express nerves over return of 737 Max"
So it's going to be an uphill battle if Boeing think's it can simply declare "problem fixed"
Solution here is probably a bottom-up cleanout.
It's quite serious. At the moment Boeing has achieved the incredible feat of getting the must lucrative passengers to actually be concerned about what plane they are flying on,
https://www.ft.com/content/0cc0daf0-...1-51bf8f989972
"Business travellers express nerves over return of 737 Max"
So it's going to be an uphill battle if Boeing think's it can simply declare "problem fixed"
Jun 20, 2019, 2:00 pm
#347
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Jun 20, 2019, 5:21 pm
#349
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Somebody has to be held responsible for what happened not just corporately and law suits but professionally as well. Those who are truly responsible know who they are and frankly they need to be exposed and fired. Of course it will open them up to civil suits but I could care less. These idiots have ruined one of the best branded reputation in the world of business. Frankly I think this all started with the tanker deal which is still open to debate. As an American and ex USAF I am embarrassed.
Jun 23, 2019, 2:21 am
#350
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Boeing is now being sued by some pilots over this 737 Max.
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/11238282
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/11238282
Jun 23, 2019, 6:55 am
#351
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Here is where I am having a problem if this is a software issue why is it taking so long to get these birds back in the air? Is it "politics" as some are saying in the press or is there something else we don't know yet? One thing is for certain that is Boeings creditability and that is shot.
Jun 23, 2019, 8:14 am
#352
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Here is where I am having a problem if this is a software issue why is it taking so long to get these birds back in the air? Is it "politics" as some are saying in the press or is there something else we don't know yet? One thing is for certain that is Boeings creditability and that is shot.
In a flight-simulator test earlier this month, The Wall Street Journal’s Scott McCartney and pilot Roddy Guthrie, fleet captain for the 737 at American Airlines, experienced troubles in turning the wheel. As described in a June 5 article, Capt. Guthrie couldn’t move the wheel until Mr. McCartney pitched the plane’s nose down, easing some of the pressure on the wheel.
Jun 23, 2019, 8:39 am
#353
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The software was not the original problem. i
It was the "solution".
You have an unbalanced airframe that is not allowed to fly without corrective software.
The corrective sofware was poorly designed and tries to fly the plane into the ground when a single mechanical failure occurs.
If switched off you become unable to fly the plane manually because it requires too much force. If you want to enable the electric force again, the murder impulse comes back online.
Only way to both keep power and not lose control is to extend flaps. Which at high speeds is dangerous.
I wholeheartedly disagree with who said this machine was not a deathtrap.
This is a lot bigger than a software problem. Removing the software is not possible. The plane is required to have it. Finding a solution that doesn't trigger an inexorable loop of death will take a lot of time, thorough test flights, and tests under various failure conditions.
Something I have no doubt Boeing are working very hard on right now. Something they needed to do before the plane went into service...
It was the "solution".
You have an unbalanced airframe that is not allowed to fly without corrective software.
The corrective sofware was poorly designed and tries to fly the plane into the ground when a single mechanical failure occurs.
If switched off you become unable to fly the plane manually because it requires too much force. If you want to enable the electric force again, the murder impulse comes back online.
Only way to both keep power and not lose control is to extend flaps. Which at high speeds is dangerous.
I wholeheartedly disagree with who said this machine was not a deathtrap.
This is a lot bigger than a software problem. Removing the software is not possible. The plane is required to have it. Finding a solution that doesn't trigger an inexorable loop of death will take a lot of time, thorough test flights, and tests under various failure conditions.
Something I have no doubt Boeing are working very hard on right now. Something they needed to do before the plane went into service...
Jun 23, 2019, 10:30 am
#354
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The plane CAN fly with software modifications.
MCAS would have to be put back into its original use case - extreme edge-scenario with dual-sensor input. Then it would have to be set up to alert the pilot that MCAS has activated.
More importantly - pilots have to be TRAINED on how the 737 Max handles differently than previous models. There needs to be a brand new certification requirement specific to this model. The training will cost airlines millions and it'd take far longer to rotate pilots through training (after Boeing builds the simulators) than it'd take to roll out a software patch.
At this point, I think that's the only way that the 737 Max (or whatever it's rebranded to) gets to fly again. It'll be considered a new model, new certifications, and mandatory training so pilots know how to handle the different feel/characteristics.
MCAS would have to be put back into its original use case - extreme edge-scenario with dual-sensor input. Then it would have to be set up to alert the pilot that MCAS has activated.
More importantly - pilots have to be TRAINED on how the 737 Max handles differently than previous models. There needs to be a brand new certification requirement specific to this model. The training will cost airlines millions and it'd take far longer to rotate pilots through training (after Boeing builds the simulators) than it'd take to roll out a software patch.
At this point, I think that's the only way that the 737 Max (or whatever it's rebranded to) gets to fly again. It'll be considered a new model, new certifications, and mandatory training so pilots know how to handle the different feel/characteristics.
Jun 23, 2019, 10:37 am
#355
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(ETA: building the simulators is probably not an issue - as far as I can tell it's the same inside the cockpit as the NG, but the simulators have to have software mods to match the aircraft behavior, which should take as much testing as they're doing in the real aircraft to make sure the behaviors match)
Jun 23, 2019, 11:08 am
#356
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The software was not the original problem. i
It was the "solution".
You have an unbalanced airframe that is not allowed to fly without corrective software.
The corrective sofware was poorly designed and tries to fly the plane into the ground when a single mechanical failure occurs.
If switched off you become unable to fly the plane manually because it requires too much force. If you want to enable the electric force again, the murder impulse comes back online.
Only way to both keep power and not lose control is to extend flaps. Which at high speeds is dangerous.
I wholeheartedly disagree with who said this machine was not a deathtrap.
This is a lot bigger than a software problem. Removing the software is not possible. The plane is required to have it. Finding a solution that doesn't trigger an inexorable loop of death will take a lot of time, thorough test flights, and tests under various failure conditions.
Something I have no doubt Boeing are working very hard on right now. Something they needed to do before the plane went into service...
It was the "solution".
You have an unbalanced airframe that is not allowed to fly without corrective software.
The corrective sofware was poorly designed and tries to fly the plane into the ground when a single mechanical failure occurs.
If switched off you become unable to fly the plane manually because it requires too much force. If you want to enable the electric force again, the murder impulse comes back online.
Only way to both keep power and not lose control is to extend flaps. Which at high speeds is dangerous.
I wholeheartedly disagree with who said this machine was not a deathtrap.
This is a lot bigger than a software problem. Removing the software is not possible. The plane is required to have it. Finding a solution that doesn't trigger an inexorable loop of death will take a lot of time, thorough test flights, and tests under various failure conditions.
Something I have no doubt Boeing are working very hard on right now. Something they needed to do before the plane went into service...
ah for the old days of cables and pulley's !! Just kidding.
Jun 23, 2019, 11:13 am
#357
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Jun 23, 2019, 3:09 pm
#358
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Bad assumption.
Jun 23, 2019, 3:19 pm
#359
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Jun 24, 2019, 7:02 am
#360
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I think your both correct simulators today have programs with hundreds of thousands of data points from years gone by having said that just when you think you know it a 2X4 hits you upside the head. One goes through phases of simulator training to
deer in the headlight" then later on "oh no already ?" to "let me see how this feels". singular opinion. Am still wondering what the $%#%$@# is going on.
deer in the headlight" then later on "oh no already ?" to "let me see how this feels". singular opinion. Am still wondering what the $%#%$@# is going on.