Passenger smoked in lav
#31
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Miami, Florida
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Spire, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,009
Maybe at 150. But a 200-lb man who did 6 shots in an hour would top out at about .12. Certainly over the legal limit for operating a motor vehicle. For someone that doesn't drink at all, you'd probably notice some speech / coordination issues. For a semi-regular drinker, you likely would not notice at all.
#32
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston MA
Programs: UA 1K/1.5 million miler, SU Gold, JL Sapphire
Posts: 529
No matter how drunk or not drunk the individual in question was, he was completely wrong and 100% responsible for smoking. The FA is not at fault here. He is.
Would it be a security risk? I doubt it. In fact, I remember that not too long ago the lav doors on the 777 airplane had a pretty obvious space to extinguish smoking material. It may even still be there. Sure, it is (now) unexpected, and one could question the inherent hazard of smoking on an airplane (and debate whether it should ever have been permitted). But what is not debatable is that tobacco smoke is an environmental hazard to everyone around the smoker, and in an cylinder where the air is recycled the stench spreads pretty quickly. For having seen what happen to air quality when pilots light up (in China), it seems self evident. That is the main reason why it was forbidden and why this type of offense needs to be treated seriously.
Seems like he got what he deserved. Excellent!
Would it be a security risk? I doubt it. In fact, I remember that not too long ago the lav doors on the 777 airplane had a pretty obvious space to extinguish smoking material. It may even still be there. Sure, it is (now) unexpected, and one could question the inherent hazard of smoking on an airplane (and debate whether it should ever have been permitted). But what is not debatable is that tobacco smoke is an environmental hazard to everyone around the smoker, and in an cylinder where the air is recycled the stench spreads pretty quickly. For having seen what happen to air quality when pilots light up (in China), it seems self evident. That is the main reason why it was forbidden and why this type of offense needs to be treated seriously.
Seems like he got what he deserved. Excellent!
#33
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: EAU
Programs: UA 1K, CO Plat, NW Plat, Marriott Premiere Plat, SPG Plat, Priority Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,712
The main reason they really, really, really don't want smoking in the lavs is the risk that a less-than-brilliant passenger throws their butt in the trash and causes a fire on the airplane which is a major, major, major, major problem. It is a HUGE safety problem.
Meh, who wants do deny two grandpas sitting together having a grand old time their Jack Daniels?
Meh, who wants do deny two grandpas sitting together having a grand old time their Jack Daniels?
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 16,900
He may has disabled or destroyed the smoke detector in the lavatory. That's a safety hazard. It's also a potential safety hazard for someone to dispose of a lighted/used cigarette in the lavatory trash basket. I'm surprised that the FA didn't take additional steps during the flight, such as wetting or inspecting everything in the lavatory' trash basket and possibly closing the lavatory to passenger use since it might not have had a functioning smoke detector.
Once I was on a flight where someone started to smoke in the lavatory and several FAs came running with fire extinguishers.
Once I was on a flight where someone started to smoke in the lavatory and several FAs came running with fire extinguishers.
#35
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,531
It's like a needle exchange program. They don't want you to smoke in the lav. But if you're going to, they DEFINITELY don't want you to throw the cigarette in the trash.
#36
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: UA
Posts: 444
The OP does not report that the passenger who smoked was acting intoxicated or belligerent, so I do not see any problem for blaming the FA.
One friend who gave up smoking about 15 years ago did mention that he had gotten away with smoking in the lavatory of a domestic flight. I think it was the sink method plus covering the smoke alarm (what one would call disabling rather than destroying it). It was that bad behavior of smoking in the airplane lavatory that made him quit...
It sounds as if UA handled this appropriately,
One friend who gave up smoking about 15 years ago did mention that he had gotten away with smoking in the lavatory of a domestic flight. I think it was the sink method plus covering the smoke alarm (what one would call disabling rather than destroying it). It was that bad behavior of smoking in the airplane lavatory that made him quit...
It sounds as if UA handled this appropriately,
#37
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: JAX
Programs: UA Plat MM, AA Gold MM, Marriott LTT, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 3,770
Jan. 3 LAX-IAD, as we were deplaning at IAD I heard a man telling a woman that she had placed all of us in danger by smoking in the lav. I saw FA accompany the woman off the plane, and there were UA employees in the jetway and gate area. But I didn't see law enforcement officers in uniform. I wonder what happened to that woman.
How many years has it been since smoking was banned on all domestic flights first before global ban?
Why does anyone think it's OK to smoke when it's clearly forbidden?
Some of us are very sensitive to smoke.
How many years has it been since smoking was banned on all domestic flights first before global ban?
Why does anyone think it's OK to smoke when it's clearly forbidden?
Some of us are very sensitive to smoke.
#38
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.8MM
Posts: 6,330
#39
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,531
(g) Regardless of whether smoking is allowed in any other part of the airplane, lavatories must have self-contained, removable ashtrays located conspicuously on or near the entry side of each lavatory door, except that one ashtray may serve more than one lavatory door if the ashtray can be seen readily from the cabin side of each lavatory served.
As I noted above its to reduce the risk of fire, as people would be more likely to dispose of their (illegally smoked) cigarettes in the trash can.
Unless you meant ash trays at passenger seats, in which case I don't know.
#40
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,103
Jan. 3 LAX-IAD, as we were deplaning at IAD I heard a man telling a woman that she had placed all of us in danger by smoking in the lav. I saw FA accompany the woman off the plane, and there were UA employees in the jetway and gate area. But I didn't see law enforcement officers in uniform. I wonder what happened to that woman.
How many years has it been since smoking was banned on all domestic flights first before global ban?
Why does anyone think it's OK to smoke when it's clearly forbidden?
Some of us are very sensitive to smoke.
How many years has it been since smoking was banned on all domestic flights first before global ban?
Why does anyone think it's OK to smoke when it's clearly forbidden?
Some of us are very sensitive to smoke.
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,384
In the US it was banned by federal law on flights of two hours or less in 1988, and domestic flights 6 hours or shorter (so almost all of them) in 1990. By 1995 it was percolating around the world by various agreements, and fully banned on all US-flagged carriers by 2000.
#42
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,277
Sure people have been unaffected by being high BAC. Body's adapt, especially in chronic alcoholics. I've picked up people who blew a 340 and had very little signs of impairment, certainly none that a casual observer would pick up on.. I've also picked up college students who managed to get over 400 in one night of drinking and found themselves getting intubated till they sobered up. So YMMV.
#44
Every Lav must have an ashtray or somewhere to extinguish lit cigarettes. It's part of FA safety checks every time they board a new a/c.
Smoking on flights happens much more often than it should, but it sounds like the crew handled it well in this case.
It depends on the length of the flight, but my pours get weaker and/or my refills take longer after the 4th drink or so. UA FAs use the stoplight system for determining when to cut someone off. It's not inconceivable that someone got to 6 J&Cs.
Smoking on flights happens much more often than it should, but it sounds like the crew handled it well in this case.
It depends on the length of the flight, but my pours get weaker and/or my refills take longer after the 4th drink or so. UA FAs use the stoplight system for determining when to cut someone off. It's not inconceivable that someone got to 6 J&Cs.
#45
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,367
Aviation Safety Reporting System has some data (self-reported voluntary, and may take some time to show up?)
search for text ~ smoking (search is slow)
search for ACN: 1525100 (this search is fast)
ACN: 1525100 (7 of 10)
Time / Day
Date : 201803
Aircraft
Reference : X
ATC / Advisory.Center : ZZZZ
Aircraft Operator : Air Carrier
Make Model Name : Commercial Fixed Wing
Crew Size.Number Of Crew : 3
Operating Under FAR Part : Part 121
Flight Plan : IFR
Mission : Passenger
Flight Phase : Cruise
Person
Reference : 1
Location Of Person.Aircraft : X
Location In Aircraft : Flight Deck
Reporter Organization : Air Carrier
Function.Flight Crew : Captain
Qualification.Flight Crew : Air Transport Pilot (ATP)
Experience.Flight Crew.Total : 16227
Experience.Flight Crew.Type : 3089
ASRS Report Number.Accession Number : 1525100
Human Factors : Confusion
Events
Anomaly.Flight Deck / Cabin / Aircraft Event : Passenger Misconduct
Anomaly.Flight Deck / Cabin / Aircraft Event : Illness
Anomaly.Deviation - Procedural : Security
Detector.Person : Flight Attendant
Were Passengers Involved In Event : Y
When Detected : In-flight
Result.General : Police / Security Involved
Assessments
Contributing Factors / Situations : Human Factors
Contributing Factors / Situations : Procedure
Primary Problem : Human Factors
Narrative: 1
Purser called to say that [a] passenger was caught vaping, smoking, had cigarette lighter, stealing liquor, drunk, and harassing other passengers. Purser advised that [passenger] had become physically and verbally abusive, shoving Flight Attendants. Declared Level 2 and contacted Dispatch.
Flight Attendant not able to locate security kit and restraints. Checked flight manual, and diagram symbology does not match legend. This caused unnecessary confusion. Kit not found in designated locations.
[Passenger] later became ill and MedLink had to be called. Found empty bottle of Ambien on him. No medical professionals onboard. Requested medical to meet flight. [Passenger] later stabilized. Flight landed and was met by police and medical staff. [Passenger] deplaned on his own after being admonished.
Synopsis
Air carrier Captain reported an unruly passenger appeared to be under the influence of alcohol and prescription medication.
Time / Day
Date : 201803
Aircraft
Reference : X
ATC / Advisory.Center : ZZZZ
Aircraft Operator : Air Carrier
Make Model Name : Commercial Fixed Wing
Crew Size.Number Of Crew : 3
Operating Under FAR Part : Part 121
Flight Plan : IFR
Mission : Passenger
Flight Phase : Cruise
Person
Reference : 1
Location Of Person.Aircraft : X
Location In Aircraft : Flight Deck
Reporter Organization : Air Carrier
Function.Flight Crew : Captain
Qualification.Flight Crew : Air Transport Pilot (ATP)
Experience.Flight Crew.Total : 16227
Experience.Flight Crew.Type : 3089
ASRS Report Number.Accession Number : 1525100
Human Factors : Confusion
Events
Anomaly.Flight Deck / Cabin / Aircraft Event : Passenger Misconduct
Anomaly.Flight Deck / Cabin / Aircraft Event : Illness
Anomaly.Deviation - Procedural : Security
Detector.Person : Flight Attendant
Were Passengers Involved In Event : Y
When Detected : In-flight
Result.General : Police / Security Involved
Assessments
Contributing Factors / Situations : Human Factors
Contributing Factors / Situations : Procedure
Primary Problem : Human Factors
Narrative: 1
Purser called to say that [a] passenger was caught vaping, smoking, had cigarette lighter, stealing liquor, drunk, and harassing other passengers. Purser advised that [passenger] had become physically and verbally abusive, shoving Flight Attendants. Declared Level 2 and contacted Dispatch.
Flight Attendant not able to locate security kit and restraints. Checked flight manual, and diagram symbology does not match legend. This caused unnecessary confusion. Kit not found in designated locations.
[Passenger] later became ill and MedLink had to be called. Found empty bottle of Ambien on him. No medical professionals onboard. Requested medical to meet flight. [Passenger] later stabilized. Flight landed and was met by police and medical staff. [Passenger] deplaned on his own after being admonished.
Synopsis
Air carrier Captain reported an unruly passenger appeared to be under the influence of alcohol and prescription medication.
ACN: 1407624 (1 of 1)
Time / Day
Date : 201612
Local Time Of Day : 1201-1800
Place
Locale Reference.ATC Facility : ZZZ.ARTCC
State Reference : US
Aircraft
Reference : X
ATC / Advisory.Center : ZZZ
Aircraft Operator : Air Carrier
Make Model Name : EMB ERJ 170/175 ER/LR
Crew Size.Number Of Crew : 2
Operating Under FAR Part : Part 121
Flight Plan : IFR
Mission : Passenger
Nav In Use : FMS Or FMC
Flight Phase : Cruise
Airspace.Class A : ZZZ
Person : 1
Reference : 1
Location Of Person.Aircraft : X
Location In Aircraft : Cabin Jumpseat
Cabin Activity : Service
Reporter Organization : Air Carrier
Function.Flight Attendant : Flight Attendant (On Duty)
ASRS Report Number.Accession Number : 1407624
Human Factors : Other / Unknown
Person : 2
Reference : 2
Location Of Person.Aircraft : X
Location In Aircraft : Cabin Jumpseat
Cabin Activity : Service
Reporter Organization : Air Carrier
Function.Flight Attendant : Flight Attendant (On Duty)
ASRS Report Number.Accession Number : 1407627
Human Factors : Other / Unknown
Events
Anomaly.Flight Deck / Cabin / Aircraft Event : Passenger Misconduct
Anomaly.Deviation - Procedural : FAR
Detector.Person : Flight Attendant
Were Passengers Involved In Event : Y
When Detected : In-flight
Result.General : Police / Security Involved
Result.Flight Crew : Diverted
Assessments
Contributing Factors / Situations : Human Factors
Primary Problem : Human Factors
Narrative: 1
Passenger was observed by FA as being intoxicated while in flight. The passenger began to agitate another passenger sitting across from him. Both passengers stood up in the aisle and began to push each other causing a disturbance. [Another] Flight Attendant (FA) was also pushed by the passenger when she instructed them to sit in their seats because the seat belt sign was on. When passenger refused to sit, she called the Captain and asked him to make an announcement that the seat belt sign was on and he needed everyone to be seated. I (FA-A) noticed the passengers were ignoring the Captain's request. I immediately called the Captain and told him there was still a disturbance going on between the passengers. They were yelling at each other and using inappropriate language which could be heard throughout the cabin. The Captain told [the FA] to put the passenger who was causing the disturbance on the phone so he could talk to him. The Captain told the passenger to sit down or he would land the plane and have him removed by the police.
At that point that passenger did sit down but continued to get up and cause a disturbance with the other passengers. I called the Captain and informed him of this. The Captain told me we were going to land in [an alternate] and have him removed from the plane by the police. [I] called FA B and told her this. While the passenger was sitting he lit a cigarette and began to smoke it. You could smell the smoke throughout the cabin. I called the Captain and informed him that the passenger was smoking and the Captain told me that he could smell it. The passenger would not put the cigarette out and continued to smoke. Approximately 30 to 40 minutes later we landed and the police escorted the passenger off the plane.
Narrative: 2
[Report narrative contained no additional information.]
Synopsis
Two ERJ-175 flight attendants reported diverting to an alternate to have a passenger removed for misconduct.
Time / Day
Date : 201612
Local Time Of Day : 1201-1800
Place
Locale Reference.ATC Facility : ZZZ.ARTCC
State Reference : US
Aircraft
Reference : X
ATC / Advisory.Center : ZZZ
Aircraft Operator : Air Carrier
Make Model Name : EMB ERJ 170/175 ER/LR
Crew Size.Number Of Crew : 2
Operating Under FAR Part : Part 121
Flight Plan : IFR
Mission : Passenger
Nav In Use : FMS Or FMC
Flight Phase : Cruise
Airspace.Class A : ZZZ
Person : 1
Reference : 1
Location Of Person.Aircraft : X
Location In Aircraft : Cabin Jumpseat
Cabin Activity : Service
Reporter Organization : Air Carrier
Function.Flight Attendant : Flight Attendant (On Duty)
ASRS Report Number.Accession Number : 1407624
Human Factors : Other / Unknown
Person : 2
Reference : 2
Location Of Person.Aircraft : X
Location In Aircraft : Cabin Jumpseat
Cabin Activity : Service
Reporter Organization : Air Carrier
Function.Flight Attendant : Flight Attendant (On Duty)
ASRS Report Number.Accession Number : 1407627
Human Factors : Other / Unknown
Events
Anomaly.Flight Deck / Cabin / Aircraft Event : Passenger Misconduct
Anomaly.Deviation - Procedural : FAR
Detector.Person : Flight Attendant
Were Passengers Involved In Event : Y
When Detected : In-flight
Result.General : Police / Security Involved
Result.Flight Crew : Diverted
Assessments
Contributing Factors / Situations : Human Factors
Primary Problem : Human Factors
Narrative: 1
Passenger was observed by FA as being intoxicated while in flight. The passenger began to agitate another passenger sitting across from him. Both passengers stood up in the aisle and began to push each other causing a disturbance. [Another] Flight Attendant (FA) was also pushed by the passenger when she instructed them to sit in their seats because the seat belt sign was on. When passenger refused to sit, she called the Captain and asked him to make an announcement that the seat belt sign was on and he needed everyone to be seated. I (FA-A) noticed the passengers were ignoring the Captain's request. I immediately called the Captain and told him there was still a disturbance going on between the passengers. They were yelling at each other and using inappropriate language which could be heard throughout the cabin. The Captain told [the FA] to put the passenger who was causing the disturbance on the phone so he could talk to him. The Captain told the passenger to sit down or he would land the plane and have him removed by the police.
At that point that passenger did sit down but continued to get up and cause a disturbance with the other passengers. I called the Captain and informed him of this. The Captain told me we were going to land in [an alternate] and have him removed from the plane by the police. [I] called FA B and told her this. While the passenger was sitting he lit a cigarette and began to smoke it. You could smell the smoke throughout the cabin. I called the Captain and informed him that the passenger was smoking and the Captain told me that he could smell it. The passenger would not put the cigarette out and continued to smoke. Approximately 30 to 40 minutes later we landed and the police escorted the passenger off the plane.
Narrative: 2
[Report narrative contained no additional information.]
Synopsis
Two ERJ-175 flight attendants reported diverting to an alternate to have a passenger removed for misconduct.