Dual citizens - do you always travel with 2 passports?
Jan 5, 2019, 3:12 am
#31
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The above is not true. US citizens are legally entitled to get US consular protections in all relevant convention-contracted countries in which the US citizen is not a national; and this US consular protection is applicable to US citizens regardless of how the US citizen entered the country in which a US citizen seeks US consular protections — as long as the US citizen, dual or otherwise, is not a national of the country in which the US citizen is seeking US consular protections.
Also, US citizens are not all currently required to use a US passport to enter and exit the country. We haven’t required that as much as people want to believe it’s been a general legal requirement and remains in place — it’s neither. The teeth behind the legal requirement to have a US passport for US citizens to do so was gutted decades ago.
Jan 5, 2019, 8:45 am
#32
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I carry most of my passports.
I use the one is necessary due to the reason why I am entering/exiting, duration of stay, cost of necessary visa, and the rights and privileges of certain passports in certain countries.
I use the one is necessary due to the reason why I am entering/exiting, duration of stay, cost of necessary visa, and the rights and privileges of certain passports in certain countries.
Jan 5, 2019, 1:26 pm
#33
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MSP, terrible example. Dual citizenship legally DOES NOT EXIST ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM FOR CHINESE adults. China quite simply does not allow dual citizenship. There are a few people who bluff it for awhile, but eventually get their Chinese citizenship stripped, GU, yes you are technically right, but it is really waving a red flag in front of CBP officers as you have about a 99% chance of your entry into the United States being prolonged, from several minutes to many hours, if you are a US citizen and do not enter the United States using your US passport.
Jan 5, 2019, 2:21 pm
#34
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MSP, terrible example. Dual citizenship legally DOES NOT EXIST ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM FOR CHINESE adults. China quite simply does not allow dual citizenship. There are a few people who bluff it for awhile, but eventually get their Chinese citizenship stripped, GU, yes you are technically right, but it is really waving a red flag in front of CBP officers as you have about a 99% chance of your entry into the United States being prolonged, from several minutes to many hours, if you are a US citizen and do not enter the United States using your US passport.
I have been with travel party members who have entered into the US without a currently valid US passport dozens to hundreds of times if not maybe even more. Just a few weeks weeks ago, I saw that it didn’t even result in a delay of more than 10 seconds.
No such person in my company has ever taken anything close to hours to get back in because of arriving in the US at a port of entry without a valid US passport. I’ve also seen US citizens with currently valid US passports take hours to get back in at times. Nothing is guaranteed, but I am certain it’s not a general disaster for US citizens to arrive in the US at a port of entry without a US passport — mostly it’s anything but.
I have zero hesitation about arriving at a US port of entry with just my regular US state driving license, my raised seal US state birth certificate and an additional photo ID (even perhaps non-federal) and a decades old (expired) federal government ID when my US passports are unavailable. If it ever causes me a delay of even an hour, I’ll be sure to let you and others here know too.
Indeed China prohibits its adult citizens from holding dual-citizenship with any country which China recognizes as a sovereign country. But even if MSPeconomist’s example were to be that of a US dual-citizen of China aged 13 years old visiting China with just a US passport, the US’s ability to provide consular protections would be legally limited to the generosity of the PRC since the US dual-citizen is also a citizen of China.
There is no requirement for the US dual-citizen to even have ever had a US passport for the US consular service protections to be applicable, by treaty, in a foreign country in which the troubled US citizen is located — as long as the US citizen is not a national of that foreign country in which the US citizen is found to be in trouble of sorts.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jan 5, 2019 at 2:46 pm
Jan 5, 2019, 11:06 pm
#35
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It's not that difficult - two passports, one US and one Canada.
1. exit/enter the USA - use the US passport
2. enter Canada - use Nexus card - Canadian immigration inspectors are the world's greatest jackasses and I don't want any interaction with them
3. exit Canada - use the US passport or Nexus card
4. enter another country - use the Canadian or US passport depending on which one I want to try and fill up first
Things to be aware of:
eg I frequently travel back to Taiwan - I enter Taiwan with my Canadian passport and exit with my Canadian passport, but use my US passport for airline check-in - the airline agent needs to check for the TW entry stamp, so I just show them both to make it easy, but make sure they keep my US passport in the record so my GE works
Some countries are a little hysterical about dual or multi citizenship - Singapore and Malaysia are two good examples. I had an argument with one of those robot-like Indian/Tamil workers who seem to hold down low level government jobs in Singapore especially at the airport, who caught sight of my US passport in its pouch after I handed over my Canadian passport for entry and tried to lecture me about having two passports and two nationalities was "impossible" and "unacceptable" yada-yada. Very annoying - if the US and Canada recognize dual citizenship between the two countries, it's not the business of another country to make a stink about it. Anyway, the moral of the story there is when traveling to places such as these, and to China, it might be better to just keep the other passport hidden to avoid conflicts.
1. exit/enter the USA - use the US passport
2. enter Canada - use Nexus card - Canadian immigration inspectors are the world's greatest jackasses and I don't want any interaction with them
3. exit Canada - use the US passport or Nexus card
4. enter another country - use the Canadian or US passport depending on which one I want to try and fill up first
Things to be aware of:
eg I frequently travel back to Taiwan - I enter Taiwan with my Canadian passport and exit with my Canadian passport, but use my US passport for airline check-in - the airline agent needs to check for the TW entry stamp, so I just show them both to make it easy, but make sure they keep my US passport in the record so my GE works
Some countries are a little hysterical about dual or multi citizenship - Singapore and Malaysia are two good examples. I had an argument with one of those robot-like Indian/Tamil workers who seem to hold down low level government jobs in Singapore especially at the airport, who caught sight of my US passport in its pouch after I handed over my Canadian passport for entry and tried to lecture me about having two passports and two nationalities was "impossible" and "unacceptable" yada-yada. Very annoying - if the US and Canada recognize dual citizenship between the two countries, it's not the business of another country to make a stink about it. Anyway, the moral of the story there is when traveling to places such as these, and to China, it might be better to just keep the other passport hidden to avoid conflicts.
Jan 6, 2019, 4:24 am
#36
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GU, that any given day can give any amount of delay for any reason is a given. What I am saying, and you know to be true, is that the likelihood of a greater delay is if a US citizen were to try and enter on a passport other than their US passport. It is sort of like those CBP checks 100 miles into Texas. You can sit there and argue with them that you do not have to obey them and you are right, but you will generally have to have an inane conversation with one of several agents, then perhaps a supervisor, and this takes a lot of time, if you just answered "yes" to teh question, you would be on your way instantly.
Jan 6, 2019, 7:59 am
#37
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Likewise. I have three passports; Australian; British and Canadian and use whichever suits at the time.
Jan 6, 2019, 11:59 am
#38
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As an EU passport holder, my passport is never stamped when entering the EU - I always use my EU passport to enter the EU, as generally it is far quicker so to do.
Travelling to Canada, if I were to travel on my EU passport I would require an ESTA to enter Canada (per the airline), so I travel back to Canada on my Canadian passport, always.
Thus there is never an EU stamp in either of my passports.
There are times when I fly from a non EU country to Canada via the EU, and during those occasions I will present both passports (proof I can enter the EU, and then enter the EU on that one, and proof of onward right to travel to Canada (and use that passport when boarding the second plane in the EU)). In those instances, if they have exit controls, I use the same passport for exit as I did for entry, whichever one of the two it may be.
Travelling to Canada, if I were to travel on my EU passport I would require an ESTA to enter Canada (per the airline), so I travel back to Canada on my Canadian passport, always.
Thus there is never an EU stamp in either of my passports.
There are times when I fly from a non EU country to Canada via the EU, and during those occasions I will present both passports (proof I can enter the EU, and then enter the EU on that one, and proof of onward right to travel to Canada (and use that passport when boarding the second plane in the EU)). In those instances, if they have exit controls, I use the same passport for exit as I did for entry, whichever one of the two it may be.
It isn't about using the passport of the country you are entering to enter, it is about using a passport from a different country to enter and then what happens if you do not leave on that same passport, that can cause a problem. So the GENERAL rule is, 'enter and leave on the same passport'. We could add, 'unless you have a passport for the country you are entering', but that would only apply in one instance per passport obviously. It's just far simpler and risk free to stick to the general rule, enter and exit on the same passport.
So forget the only two countries (yes, I know the EU is not one country, you don't have an EU passport either for that matter) you happen to have passports for and think about entering and exiting a third country. If you enter say Australia on your Canadian passport, you better exit on your Canadian passport, not your EU passport. Otherwise if you return to Australia you could have a problem when the computer tells then you never left last time which makes you a potential 'overstayer' as far as they can see. Even if you pull out your EU passport and show them an exit stamp, they are quite likely to ask, 'why did you enter on one and leave on the other?'
Unless there is a GOOD reason to use one passport vs. another, it is always best to enter and exit on the same passport.
Jan 9, 2019, 8:18 am
#39
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Ah, I see where you seem to be missing the point emma69. Entering the EU on an EU passport or Canada on a Canadian passport are no problem. But IF you were to enter the EU on your Canadian passport and then not leave using your Canadian passport, can you see that the next time you went back and tried to enter on your Canadian passport, they might ask you about your last visit when the computer tells them you entered on a Canadian passport and NEVER left according to the computer.
It isn't about using the passport of the country you are entering to enter, it is about using a passport from a different country to enter and then what happens if you do not leave on that same passport, that can cause a problem. So the GENERAL rule is, 'enter and leave on the same passport'. We could add, 'unless you have a passport for the country you are entering', but that would only apply in one instance per passport obviously. It's just far simpler and risk free to stick to the general rule, enter and exit on the same passport.
So forget the only two countries (yes, I know the EU is not one country, you don't have an EU passport either for that matter) you happen to have passports for and think about entering and exiting a third country. If you enter say Australia on your Canadian passport, you better exit on your Canadian passport, not your EU passport. Otherwise if you return to Australia you could have a problem when the computer tells then you never left last time which makes you a potential 'overstayer' as far as they can see. Even if you pull out your EU passport and show them an exit stamp, they are quite likely to ask, 'why did you enter on one and leave on the other?'
Unless there is a GOOD reason to use one passport vs. another, it is always best to enter and exit on the same passport.
It isn't about using the passport of the country you are entering to enter, it is about using a passport from a different country to enter and then what happens if you do not leave on that same passport, that can cause a problem. So the GENERAL rule is, 'enter and leave on the same passport'. We could add, 'unless you have a passport for the country you are entering', but that would only apply in one instance per passport obviously. It's just far simpler and risk free to stick to the general rule, enter and exit on the same passport.
So forget the only two countries (yes, I know the EU is not one country, you don't have an EU passport either for that matter) you happen to have passports for and think about entering and exiting a third country. If you enter say Australia on your Canadian passport, you better exit on your Canadian passport, not your EU passport. Otherwise if you return to Australia you could have a problem when the computer tells then you never left last time which makes you a potential 'overstayer' as far as they can see. Even if you pull out your EU passport and show them an exit stamp, they are quite likely to ask, 'why did you enter on one and leave on the other?'
Unless there is a GOOD reason to use one passport vs. another, it is always best to enter and exit on the same passport.
Jan 9, 2019, 10:19 am
#40
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When passports have similar 'coverage/access right' to third countries, like a person with US and Canadian citizenships going to EU, there is not much need to carry both passports. But if one for example has passports of US and South Africa (hello Elon), which would allow such person to visit number of African countries without visa, obviously carrying both passports would make sense.
Jan 10, 2019, 12:35 am
#42
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I typically carry only one passport at a time.
Recently I travelled to Iran, which I did on my New Zealand passport as it's very restrictive to travel there on my UK passport. However, as I planned to return to the UK, stay one day, and then travel out to Europe again, I deliberately left my UK passport at home. If it had gotten lost or stolen while I was overseas on the first trip, then I would have been in trouble. After returning to the UK, I then travelled out again solely on my UK passport.
There was some complexity when I returned to the UK as they needed to look me up on their system to check that I had the right to live in the UK. They advised me to carry either both passports, or to take a copy of my UK passport with me while travelling so that they can quickly confirm my UK citizenship upon return. (Though, the 'inconvenience' they mentioned seemed incredibly minor compared to the potential inconvenience of ending up with imminent travel and no passport).
Given this, in the future I plan to travel with one passport on me, and a copy of the other passport.
When I returned to the UK solely on my NZ passport, they just checked me on their system to check that I had the right to live in the UK. I didn't need to have my UK passport with me. Having a copy of the UK passport would have made things easier, but it was pretty painless even without a copy.
Recently I travelled to Iran, which I did on my New Zealand passport as it's very restrictive to travel there on my UK passport. However, as I planned to return to the UK, stay one day, and then travel out to Europe again, I deliberately left my UK passport at home. If it had gotten lost or stolen while I was overseas on the first trip, then I would have been in trouble. After returning to the UK, I then travelled out again solely on my UK passport.
There was some complexity when I returned to the UK as they needed to look me up on their system to check that I had the right to live in the UK. They advised me to carry either both passports, or to take a copy of my UK passport with me while travelling so that they can quickly confirm my UK citizenship upon return. (Though, the 'inconvenience' they mentioned seemed incredibly minor compared to the potential inconvenience of ending up with imminent travel and no passport).
Given this, in the future I plan to travel with one passport on me, and a copy of the other passport.
When I returned to the UK solely on my NZ passport, they just checked me on their system to check that I had the right to live in the UK. I didn't need to have my UK passport with me. Having a copy of the UK passport would have made things easier, but it was pretty painless even without a copy.
Last edited by OccasionalFlyerPerson; Jan 10, 2019 at 12:42 am
Jan 12, 2019, 4:47 am
#43
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I carry both my US and UK passports, most of my trips are between the EU and US. I always have my US passport information on my flight, leave the US on my US passport and enter the EU on my UK passport. I have never had this happen, but if I leave the EU I would use my UK passport at exit security checks and show my US passport at the check-in desk. With Brexit things will change I assume. I try to always enter/exit on the same passport for the same country over the years for consistency, also note some countries do not recognize dual citizenship and might give you trouble if you have two passports. In those cases I leave one behind.
Entering an EU country through the automatic gates is amazing. Most people coming on the US to EU flights I take aren't EU citizens so I breeze through immigration. Last time at LHR I believe we landed and I was at the baggage claim within 13 minutes, the fastest it has ever been for me.
Entering an EU country through the automatic gates is amazing. Most people coming on the US to EU flights I take aren't EU citizens so I breeze through immigration. Last time at LHR I believe we landed and I was at the baggage claim within 13 minutes, the fastest it has ever been for me.
Jan 12, 2019, 5:35 am
#44
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Always carry both US & EU. Always leave and enter the US with the US passport.
Then within the EU I use their passport mostly just for convenience but always have both because you just never know. Those of us old enough will remember planes being hijacked and one of the first things they do is collect the passports and separate based on nationality, for example. When in the Middle East I sometimes will use my EU passport, based on the country. Like it or not, agree or not, US citizens are more desirable targets for some.
As I understand it, other than not recommending it the US has no official position on dual citizenship, nor does it formally recognize it (US law doesn’t mention it) but as a US citizen you MUST enter the US with your US passport. When traveling I also use the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program https://step.state.gov/step/ because as a US citizen it doesn’t matter which passport I use to enter another country. As far as the US is concerned you ARE a US citizen, Period. And will remain a citizen until you officially renounce it.
https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...tionality.html
Afroyim v. Rusk and Rogers v. Bellei are the operative United States Supreme Court cases on the issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk
That said, I still wouldn’t do anything like vote in another country that could at some point maybe call into question my allegiances. In my case I’m US born but another country considered me a citizen based on blood line. I also never officially applied for their citizenship as they just confirmed my eligibility, nor did I need to take an oath.
Then within the EU I use their passport mostly just for convenience but always have both because you just never know. Those of us old enough will remember planes being hijacked and one of the first things they do is collect the passports and separate based on nationality, for example. When in the Middle East I sometimes will use my EU passport, based on the country. Like it or not, agree or not, US citizens are more desirable targets for some.
As I understand it, other than not recommending it the US has no official position on dual citizenship, nor does it formally recognize it (US law doesn’t mention it) but as a US citizen you MUST enter the US with your US passport. When traveling I also use the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program https://step.state.gov/step/ because as a US citizen it doesn’t matter which passport I use to enter another country. As far as the US is concerned you ARE a US citizen, Period. And will remain a citizen until you officially renounce it.
https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...tionality.html
Afroyim v. Rusk and Rogers v. Bellei are the operative United States Supreme Court cases on the issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk
That said, I still wouldn’t do anything like vote in another country that could at some point maybe call into question my allegiances. In my case I’m US born but another country considered me a citizen based on blood line. I also never officially applied for their citizenship as they just confirmed my eligibility, nor did I need to take an oath.
Jan 13, 2019, 4:32 am
#45
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Always carry both US & EU. Always leave and enter the US with the US passport.
Then within the EU I use their passport mostly just for convenience but always have both because you just never know. Those of us old enough will remember planes being hijacked and one of the first things they do is collect the passports and separate based on nationality, for example. When in the Middle East I sometimes will use my EU passport, based on the country. Like it or not, agree or not, US citizens are more desirable targets for some.
As I understand it, other than not recommending it the US has no official position on dual citizenship, nor does it formally recognize it (US law doesn’t mention it) but as a US citizen you MUST enter the US with your US passport. When traveling I also use the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program https://step.state.gov/step/ because as a US citizen it doesn’t matter which passport I use to enter another country. As far as the US is concerned you ARE a US citizen, Period. And will remain a citizen until you officially renounce it.
https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...tionality.html
Afroyim v. Rusk and Rogers v. Bellei are the operative United States Supreme Court cases on the issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk
That said, I still wouldn’t do anything like vote in another country that could at some point maybe call into question my allegiances. In my case I’m US born but another country considered me a citizen based on blood line. I also never officially applied for their citizenship as they just confirmed my eligibility, nor did I need to take an oath.
Then within the EU I use their passport mostly just for convenience but always have both because you just never know. Those of us old enough will remember planes being hijacked and one of the first things they do is collect the passports and separate based on nationality, for example. When in the Middle East I sometimes will use my EU passport, based on the country. Like it or not, agree or not, US citizens are more desirable targets for some.
As I understand it, other than not recommending it the US has no official position on dual citizenship, nor does it formally recognize it (US law doesn’t mention it) but as a US citizen you MUST enter the US with your US passport. When traveling I also use the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program https://step.state.gov/step/ because as a US citizen it doesn’t matter which passport I use to enter another country. As far as the US is concerned you ARE a US citizen, Period. And will remain a citizen until you officially renounce it.
https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...tionality.html
Afroyim v. Rusk and Rogers v. Bellei are the operative United States Supreme Court cases on the issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk
That said, I still wouldn’t do anything like vote in another country that could at some point maybe call into question my allegiances. In my case I’m US born but another country considered me a citizen based on blood line. I also never officially applied for their citizenship as they just confirmed my eligibility, nor did I need to take an oath.
Having and using a foreign country’s passport is not much different than voting in a foreign country.
The US formally recognizes dual-citizenship of US citizens in ways. This comes up, for example, when a US dual-citizen is hoping for US consular protections in a foreign country in which the US citizen also has citizenship. It also comes up for US government security clearances in some ways.