A Real Case of DYKWYD @ SIN
 

Hey FTers,

Whilst going to the gate to take an SQ flight to DPS earlier today I encountered several cases of DYKWYD (Do You Know What You're Doing?). In the first case, during the x-ray scan at the gate in SIN, there was a European in front of me who decided to bring along a 1.5L bottle of vodka (not in a "security bag" with receipt). Needless to say she was surprised when security confiscated it, saying, "I brought this from Poland," which begs the question how the heck did she manage to get that into the transit area of SIN?

The other DYKWYD case I witness today on the same flight, I was seated beside someone who called their bank (while waiting to board) and was angry that the only credit card he took with him for international travel got cancelled while he was en-route to his final destination. To me, this seems like an amateur error albeit from the sounds of things it looks like his financial institution were sitting on their hands giving him the run around.

Is it just me or is it crazy to travel internationally with just one credit card? The way I see it, you should expect that one (or more) of your credit cards won't work whilst travelling. I can understand the safety and security element of it (i.e. what if card gets lost/stolen), but if you're travelling exclusively with credit cards the only person's money who is lost is the bank (not yours!) Another thing I hear a lot on forums and elsewhere online is the idea that you should bring a debit card with you to withdraw cash. Can someone explain the rationale behind that? It seems to me that carrying a card that has access to all your assets seems irresponsible to put it modestly. Again, why not rely on using the credit card to withdraw cash (in fact my bank charges more if you dare to use a debit card to withdraw cash overseas versus a credit card!)? Sure you have to prepay your card by a little bit (to ensure you aren't assessed interest right away), but again reduces the liability.

Safe Travels,

James

Sometimes things that seem obvious to experienced people aren't necessarily so to those with little or no experience. That's the case with anything in life.

I know some folks who only have one credit card - period - and they can't imagine why anyone would need more than one. I could envision a couple of them traveling with just that card, despite advice to the contrary.

A debit card is in most all cases the best way to obtain currency overseas. Compared to bringing cash to exchange, the exchange rate is better (with a few exceptions) and you don't have all that cash to get lost or stolen. Cash advances from a credit card carry exorbitant cash advance interest rates and with most issuers the interest starts accruing immediately with no grace period, irrespective of your card balance. Most of us consider a credit card cash advance to be a last resort in case of emergency.

If a lost/stolen debit card is reported quickly you're not going to be liable for unauthorized charges more than $50 (and maybe not even anything at all). Of course if you're really worried you can keep a separate account from your primary one, with just some money in it for use while traveling. Another plus is a debit card doesn't charge any interest. Depending on the bank your institution may charge a foreign transaction fee and an ATM withdrawal fee (in some countries the ATM owner of course may charge an ATM use fee if you're not using a debit card from that bank). Even with those debit card fees, I've not had a credit card where the extra interest charges would be cheaper than use of a debit card for cash withdrawals.

And at least in the US there are options with low or no foreign transaction fees and which don't charge you an additional fee for using an ATM - Charles Schwab is one option with zero foreign transaction fees and no additional ATM fees - they also reimburse you each month for any ATM fees charged by the ATM owner...no monthly fee and no account minimum. There is a similar Fidelity account though I believe there is a 1% forex fee, though reimbursement for ATM fees occurs more quickly than monthly. I use Schwab and love it. There are threads about both on FT.

I travel with two debit cards (business and personal) and three credit cards (one business, two personal.) I've had credit cards cancelled mid-trip or not had them work to make a purchase (service stations in the U.S.) and had to resort to a debit card. I've also had debit cards not work to withdraw local cash (Namibia, French Polynesia.)

In places where theft risk is high I will split up my cards and leave one debit and credit in my hotel safe in the event I lose the others.

IMO, what is really crazy is travelling without enough room on your cards to manage an emergency or an unforeseen last minute change in plans. I have high limit cards that can get me back home from anywhere in any fare class at a moment's notice.

A bit of a case of DYKWYD there yourself j2simpso. A debit card as 84fiero says, is the normal way to get cash when travelling. Put simply, it is to avoid interest being charged from day one as it is is you use a credit card in an ATM. There can also be other factors that come into play as well.

Also regarding pre-loading your credit card to try and avoid interest charges if you use it at an ATM, that may or may not work. In some cases, they charge the interest regardless of whether there is a positive balance or not. In other cases, if your card is lost or stolen, the pre-loaded amount is NOT covered by your card agreement.

So there is a bit of DYKWYD in your own answer. We all go by what we individually are aware of and of course we all get it wrong sometimes. You may wish to do a bit more research on your own method of handling cash when travelling to see if it really is the best way for you to do so given what is available to you in terms of both credit and debit cards in your neck of the woods.

I always use a debit card for cash when travelling in Europe, Africa and Middle East. Consistently best rates and no need to load up cards in advance. I don't see the big deal there.

I agree that debit card is great for getting cash at the ATMs, especially in Europe since many of the top banks do not even charge ATM fees when using them.

However, I still use cc whenever it is possible simply because I want to earn points on all my expenses and most of the travel cards have no forex fees.

I think the biggest mistake most people make is not informing their bank they are going on a trip and may be using their card overseas and this is what causes some banks to preemptively close your card. I think almost all the major banks require you to give them a travel notice, with exception being Amex, so they will not automatically flag the account when they start seeing purchases made outside your home area or regular spending pattern.

As 95% of the world's population (likely a gross understatement) does not travel as frequently as FT members, I tend to give them a pass on travel-specific issues.

Can't comprehend how to stand to the side on an escalator/moving walk - bash away.

International customs practices and financial product availability? A pass.

I think Chase sent me an email saying I no longer had to inform them that I was traveling. I never notify any of my credit card companies anymore. Of course I'm out of the country 3-5 times a year.

As for a debit card, I tried for a very long time to just have an ATM card (only that couldn't be used as a debit card) but I think all my financial institutions have done away with that. As far as liability, the bank and/or Visa/MC may place a daily limit on withdrawals. I have changed those on various cards.

My bank (Citi) flags my travel when purchased with its cards, and sends me an email confirming awareness of my travel before I depart. This avoids having to give travel notice.

In fact for you, the CC issuer may have put your frequent travel into your profile. Amex does this, iirc.

To avoid hassles with acceptance overseas, I'll always carry a chip and pin M/C along with the Amex Platinum. The M/C likes travel notifications.

I use a Schwab Debit Card (with Visa) overseas at ATMs for cash - no fees, no Forex, and refunds any bank's ATM fees. But...I opened a separate account that I only fund with sufficient money for each trip. Sits idle with a $100 balance between trips. No linkage to my main investment account.

Nice tip! Thanks!

Curve Card
 

I am similarly rather judicious in carrying backups and then backups for my backups.

Two debit cards: one Schwab (my primary) and a CapOne 360 as backup.

Three credit cards: Chase Sapphire Preferred, Citi TY Premier and Amex Plat. The Citi card is my primary as I've found MasterCard often has *slightly* better forex rates and the Plat mostly comes along for the benefits.

Similarly, those cards all have ample credit limits to get me home from anywhere.

I carry only the Schwab and Citi cards, leaving the rest in the hotel safe. I have a slim card case that I keep all of those in, along with Priority Pass, insurance cards, etc. Add to that $300 in backup cash (all crisp recent-issue twenties in good condition).

My daily-carry cards go into a stick-on card slot on the back of my phone.

The wallet also has a card with my Gmail password and backup 2FA codes (though I obfuscate the password slightly and mentally note how to transpose it back). That card case, the money clip and my passport all go directly into the hotel safe after checking in.

If I'm in a place with very high CC acceptance like London, I don't even bother carrying the Schwab card around.

Not being funny but the majority are not people on here. Thus not everyone is going to be able to have, or even need, more than one card. I haven't even owned a card since mid 2015 and still managed fine in 40 countries, albeit all bar 5 were with my husband who does have them, but still.

Again, I bring up the point of shortsightedness of people here failing to realise that their gripes are applicable to an extremely small minority.

Very simple, she bought it at WAW after security, travelled to SIN on LOT and disembarked into the terminal. At SIN T1/2/3 security is gate based, and transit/departing/arriving passengers all freely mix in the transit area (with the sole exception of random security screening of arrivals from secondary, mainly SE Asia, ports - although I am not sure if there would be a LAGs restriction for that screening)..

To be honest, in relation to the credit card issue, it seems you have very little knowledge of most people's lives or the norms in different cultures. For a lot of people, and most people from my country, it would be perfectly normal to have one debit card and one credit card, and in fact, a lot of people would be reluctant to even get a credit card so as not to over - extend themselves financially. Some countries, such as Germany as an example, actually use credit cards far less than in other countries, preferring to use cash.

Lastly, I think on FT, there can be a tendency to judge people who are not frequent flyers for their lack of knowledge on how to travel, which I always hate to see. People coming on here and calling people idiots for not being well traveled, just makes themselves look like idiots.

You're right, it's risky to swipe a debit/ATM card that has access to all of your assets. People who travel overseas frequently recommend creating a separate account only for withdrawals while traveling. Fund it with a modest balance from your other accounts, just enough to cover your anticipate expenses. That limits the potential downside in case your card is skimmed.

Yeah I keep what I think I'll need for the trip (with some buffer), in my Schwab no-fee account, leaving the rest in my primary accounts with Chase.

Though I will say, when my Chase debit card number was fraudulently used (while I was here at home) to withdraw cash, Chase was excellent about it. I called the same day I saw it (day after it showed up as pending IIRC) and they had the money credited back to my account that day as a "temporary credit" pending investigation. I think the investigation process - whatever that entailed - took just a few days and the credit was made permanent. Still, I'd rather avoid the hassle especially if I'll be somewhere with limited communication capability or whatnot, and keep things partitioned off.

Also as someone else mentioned upthread, I obviously pay with credit card as much as possible - hard to do in some countries, very easy to do in others. And make sure I have enough available CC balance(s) for an emergency.

I learned this one when I visited Sao Paulo a few years ago. I was unable to successfully extract any cash from the various airport ATMs (that I subsequently read should be avoided), but others were able to! Thankfully I receive alerts when any withdrawal has been made from my account. It was still a bit of a pain to freeze it and get the cash back.

Now, I have a separate account just for the purpose of accessing cash while traveling. Additionally, I "freeze" my debit card as I typically take cash out only once every few months. When I need to use the card, I unlock it with my app, do the withdrawal, and immediately re-lock the card.

But, I doubt anyone who hasn't read extensively or has faced the problem will think to take these precautions

This is US centric forum and advices are mostly given by and to people from US.. So the above advice is valid.

But once you leave US, above rule while generally correct, will not be that universal. I suspect that OP is from UK where they (correct me if I am wrong) have an option to do cash advance from locally issued credit cards without incurring all the fees which would be the case for US cards.

Then, there are fees and consumer protection (or absence of such) with credit card fraud. In Singapore, while every person carries 4-8 credit cards in their wallets, you will find that unless one is well educated miles/cashback chaser, most of local population prefers to carry cash on overseas trips. This can be explained due to cultural/historical reasons and the fact that Singapore has very competitive and well developed cash exchange industry where you can get most currencies close to interbank exchange rate.

Now take the fact into consideration - Singapore banks add 2.8%-3.7% fees on non-SGD transactions with credit cards, there is no such thing as fee-free transaction overseas. With ATM withdrawals you will have to pay fee at your local bank for using non-bank ATM ($4-$8), pay fee what other bank's ATM charges (varies, but in Thailand for example you will pay $7 and more per withdrawal), and your deducts 2%-2.5% fees on top of the interbank exchange rate when withdrawing from an overseas ATM. So if I want to get $100 and I am charged $5+$4+$2=$11 -11% of fees from $100, I would not do it personally - I'd go to money changer and get that cash with 20c fee instead of $11.

My ATM card was skimmed on an overseas trip two years ago. Thieves withdrew about $1500 a month later. My credit union was very helpful in reversing the debits for me (thieves still had their $$$) and issuing a new account number.

BTW I was being cautious about watching out for ATM skimmers on that trip, as it was in a country where it's known to happen. After the theft I searched news -- hard because the problem wasn't reported outside of the local language, in which I have only casual conversational skill -- and found that the skimmers were allegedly an inside job at the ATM operator. :eek:

If you purchase something at post security (i.e. Duty Free) isn't it supposed to come in one of the IATA/ICAO tamper evident bags with the booze and receipt inside which security at the transit airports is supposed to check to ensure no more than 24-48 hours have lapsed between purchase and you going through security? Perhaps they removed that from the packaging but to me that seems like an amateur mistake and something I suspect the duty-free store would've warned them of!

Great advice there - looks like I'll be revising my travel routine to carry a debit card which carries no ForEx and ATM fees but has a limited amount of Dinero (i.e. $500).

Safe Travels,

James

Interesting to see the different bank and consumer practices around the world!

Yeah that's disconcerting!! It's possible my issue traced back to a trip to Mexico earlier that year, though like you, I was careful to check for evidence of skimming at ATMs and only used in-bank machines at major international financial institutions. Could have been an inside job, too, I suppose. Glad it worked out for you too though.

I carry a mix of credit cards of different types and different issuing banks. I won't even pretend to know how/why I get rejected charges abroad, but often the rejection is in-country, not a rejection made by my U.S. bank. For example, I've had cases where all of my Chase cards were rejecting in a country - and then I'd call Chase to say "...?" and Chase would say "we don't show any attempts to use your cards."

I also carry one debit card and am super careful both physically with where I keep that card and with the machines I'll use it in. Ideally, only in a secure ATM area inside a large physical bank of a brand I recognize or of a brand that is obviously that country's dominant brand. While this isn't foolproof, I'm just looking for a target that is harder for a skimmer to hit than other nearby targets. Thankfully, I can complete a lot of international trips without needing cash - or only needing a small amount obtainable in one ATM stop.

If I'm going to any country I'm not at all familiar with, I also bring enough cash (dollars and euros, 20's usually) to handle a few taxi rides and simple meals. Sort of a fallback if I'm in an airport, there's no Uber or credit card cabs, my cards aren't working, etc. and I just want a simple way into town. Of course cash currency conversions are suboptimal, but it's better than having to do a credit card cash advance from a human teller.

Mexico is where my card was skimmed. I used only two ATMs that trip, one in a 4.5-star hotel and one in a brand-name international bank. As I said, the fraud was alleged to have been perpetrated by employees of the company that serviced the ATMs. The skimmer was found inside the machine! I've used my ATM card in a dozen other countries without problem.