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When do airlines and hotels go back to chasing our business?

When do airlines and hotels go back to chasing our business?

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Old Dec 5, 18, 7:35 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by florin View Post
I don't believe that fuel costs are consistently going up. They go up and also come down. They are not aligned with inflation. Planes are also more efficient now.

Airlines have been pursuing new revenue streams for years and have been very successful at nickel-and-diming. Some examples:
1. Fees, FEES and more fees. FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!! US legacies are taking in billions!
2. Premium Economy is a huge cash cow.
3. Upsells: 10 years ago paid UGs virtually didn't exist and now most airlines have some sort of means to PAY more for a higher class of service.
Just about every airline has realized significant fuel increases year over year. And yes, the airlines are finding new ways to generate ancillary revenue, but margins are still declining. Costs are simply increasing faster than revenue.
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Old Dec 5, 18, 2:16 pm
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I'm not sure about all this fuel increase talk, fuel has been low for a few years now and has been dropping like a rock the past month or so.

As for fees, there are only so many fees you can charge before you run out of them and there is only so much that they can raise the price of a bag or seat before that causes you to skip the bag process [at some point, its cheaper not to bring a bag and buy it there or ship it] and just play roulette without paying for the seat.

This crap always comes back to bite its just a matter of when and by how much.
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Old Dec 5, 18, 4:58 pm
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Don't know why you guys are complaining. They are just charging what the market will bear, that's how capitalism works.
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Old Dec 6, 18, 7:41 am
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Originally Posted by rufflesinc View Post
Don't know why you guys are complaining. They are just charging what the market will bear, that's how capitalism works.
We are not complaining. I love capitalism, its what paid for me to now live directly on the beach.
But seriously flights have not kept up with inflation. I just booked a trip TPA-SEA for $200. It's still cheap to fly. I got an $89 Corporate rate for the Den airport Marriott tomorrow night. Travel is still very cheap for a lot of us but

Don't be obtuse. The question remains, when will the next downturn in the economy happen, to where we start seeing like triple point promotions and such to where the easy money dries up for the kettles to travel. Remember its the kettles that have to pay all those ancillary fees, not most of the people on FT.

As I stated before, I do believe it is well underway.

So you don't think it happens? Or you don't want to venture when?
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Old Dec 6, 18, 10:48 am
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Originally Posted by Ceres View Post
So you don't think it happens? Or you don't want to venture when?
I don't believe there's a such thing as "chasing our business" or "downturns in the economy". The invisible hand balances .
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Old Dec 6, 18, 12:16 pm
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Originally Posted by rufflesinc View Post
I don't believe there's a such thing as "chasing our business" or "downturns in the economy". The invisible hand balances .
I am trying my hardest not to be a total a$$, and its tough.

So here is what I would consider a downturn in the economy. Twice, where stocks lost half their value, people lost their jobs and homes.

So.... maybe the invisible hand has not revealed this to you? BTW '08 and '09 were my best years, But it was brutal for people I know. And the years after that they were begging for people to fly and stay at their hotels. Triple point mileage runs and east status with benefits that meant something. Hotel promotions, you name it. Maybe you don't get out much or maybe you just despise me and my kind. That's alright but if you don't see these as a downturn in the economy, well then walk away from the thread, and don't embarrass yourself.

I was trying not to be an a$s but I guess it didn't work
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Old Dec 6, 18, 5:14 pm
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Originally Posted by Ceres View Post
I am trying my hardest not to be a total a$$, and its tough.

So here is what I would consider a downturn in the economy.
You can call that whatever you what. That's just capitalism.
Twice, where stocks lost half their value, people lost their jobs and homes.
Values of things go up, values go down. Thats how the free market, at-will employment private property, property liens work.
So.... maybe the invisible hand has not revealed this to you? BTW '08 and '09 were my best years, But it was brutal for people I know. And the years after that they were begging for people to fly and stay at their hotels. Triple point mileage runs and east status with benefits that meant something. Hotel promotions, you name it. Maybe you don't get out much or maybe you just despise me and my kind.
I don't see what you're getting at . If demand falls, then price goes down. Whats your point
That's alright but if you don't see these as a downturn in the economy, well then walk away from the thread, and don't embarrass yourself.
You're the one complaining about the basics of capitalism
I was trying not to be an a$s but I guess it didn't work
I don't have a problem with you being an "a$s" but at least admit you're complaining about capitalism
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Old Dec 6, 18, 5:43 pm
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...what were we talking about again?
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Old Dec 6, 18, 6:41 pm
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Originally Posted by TBD View Post
...what were we talking about again?
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Old Dec 6, 18, 7:17 pm
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A lot of these changes can relate back to DUI Dougie and his good pal, Scott Kirby.
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Old Dec 6, 18, 7:45 pm
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The U.S. airline cartel doesn't really need to chase us. What are we going to do? Drive? They've eliminated most of the competition, carefully tread lightly on each other's moneymaker routes, and kept a pretty tight lid on growth/supply as a group.

FFPs used to thrive in part because of information arbitrage. Fewer of us knew how to exploit the awards and status benefits. Now everybody and their brother collects and uses miles, it's no longer a niche thing. Airlines have mostly shifted to being credit card delivery vehicles as far as miles go - the flying itself is now a much smaller component of the mileage earning game.

Hotels have gone more towards the direct sale of status (again, as part of being credit card delivery vehicles). So the benefits are watered down over time. I suspect hotels can still identify and reward the true high-value guests at each individual property: I know this has happened to me when I became a "regular" at a hotel, regardless of what status I had with the overall program.
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Old Dec 7, 18, 6:39 am
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Originally Posted by rufflesinc View Post
You can call that whatever you what. That's just capitalism.
Values of things go up, values go down. Thats how the free market, at-will employment private property, property liens work.
I don't see what you're getting at . If demand falls, then price goes down. Whats your point
You're the one complaining about the basics of capitalism
I don't have a problem with you being an "a$s" but at least admit you're complaining about capitalism
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Come on admit it you've seen a market crash. You have Diners points FCS. I know you were around for 1929. I love capitalism, I told you 08 and 09 were my some of my favorite years. Chased all the overleveraged po'" folks off the beach and out of my neighborhood.. Hell, I even got an autographed picture or Reagan in my Nebraska office. Another red state you might notice.

Last edited by Ceres; Dec 7, 18 at 6:46 am
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Old Dec 7, 18, 6:47 am
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Originally Posted by pinniped View Post
The U.S. airline cartel doesn't really need to chase us. What are we going to do? Drive? They've eliminated most of the competition, carefully tread lightly on each other's moneymaker routes, and kept a pretty tight lid on growth/supply as a group.

FFPs used to thrive in part because of information arbitrage. Fewer of us knew how to exploit the awards and status benefits. Now everybody and their brother collects and uses miles, it's no longer a niche thing. Airlines have mostly shifted to being credit card delivery vehicles as far as miles go - the flying itself is now a much smaller component of the mileage earning game.

Hotels have gone more towards the direct sale of status (again, as part of being credit card delivery vehicles). So the benefits are watered down over time. I suspect hotels can still identify and reward the true high-value guests at each individual property: I know this has happened to me when I became a "regular" at a hotel, regardless of what status I had with the overall program.
You nailed it.
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Old Dec 7, 18, 10:03 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Ceres View Post
We are not complaining. I love capitalism, its what paid for me to now live directly on the beach.
But seriously flights have not kept up with inflation. I just booked a trip TPA-SEA for $200. It's still cheap to fly. I got an $89 Corporate rate for the Den airport Marriott tomorrow night. Travel is still very cheap for a lot of us but

Don't be obtuse. The question remains, when will the next downturn in the economy happen, to where we start seeing like triple point promotions and such to where the easy money dries up for the kettles to travel. Remember its the kettles that have to pay all those ancillary fees, not most of the people on FT.

As I stated before, I do believe it is well underway.

So you don't think it happens? Or you don't want to venture when?
The same capitalism that is going to have your beachfront residence under water at some future point ...
And I agree things have started to slow. AX is requesting bank account access (view only) for some credit card issuance. Credit card default rates are up. Real inflation (at least in high housing cost markets) is taking a big bite out of discretionary income.

What will our favo(u)rite airlines and hotels do? I suppose we will know what sectors are slowing first by the nature of the promos we may receive, i.e., weekend travel v. weekday travel in non-resort areas, multi-night v. single night stays, and so on.
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Old Dec 7, 18, 12:20 pm
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Originally Posted by Ceres View Post
Ok, all political nonsense aside. The facts are we now have a split government, which means gridlock. The stock market looks heavy. We have a rising dollar that is bad for exports and higher interest rates. All of which does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling about the intermediate term of the economy. We have a had numerous consolidations in the travel business with many devaluations and raising the bar for elite status.

Point being the pendulum has swung way in favor of the airlines and hotels. When is the next recession or downturn, coming to where we see them cater to us for our business? Not make status tougher to get, and trim benefits.


Just a random thought
Based on my recent experience of two mid week long haul TATL trips with 7 separate segments on three different carriers, not anytime soon. Iím currently on segment 6, and like the five before it, this one is completely full.
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