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US Government Regulation of Seat Pitch?

US Government Regulation of Seat Pitch?

Old Oct 31, 18, 10:11 am
  #61  
 
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I don't have any objection to regulating minimum seat standards. I'm not sure it will have the desired effect, though.

The government is unlikely to set minimums that would give most of us what we want in an economy seat (i.e. >32" pitch/19" width). There'd also have to be a lot of exceptions for existing aircraft that couldn't fit the larger seats. What they would do would likely hit the ULCCs the hardest as they have the tightest pitch. The result would be fewer cheap tickets.

Also, the airplanes are already full. If airlines have to remove seats, who gets left behind?

Originally Posted by jwrogers View Post
There are several comments on here about consumers being able to choose ULCC and how consumers are the ones to blame for buying those tickets... but sometimes corporate travel policies specify "cheapest possible airfare", which sticks the traveler with no option. I'm not inclined to blame that traveler.
You seem to be treating "consumers" and "travelers" as interchangeable. In your example they are not. The business that buys the ticket is the "consumer", not the traveler.

The frequent business travelers use their FF status to get more comfortable seats even when their employer, the consumer, won't pay for them.

Originally Posted by m44 View Post
Those who claim that the free market works or should work - should be asked to provide a proof.
American, Delta, and United all offer economy seats with additional legroom for purchase. On United, roughly 25% to 35% of the economy seats have this extra legroom but those seats are usually the last to be selected. I frequently see seat maps with full regular economy sections and numerous available seats in Economy Plus. Those extra legroom seats were available to every passenger with a pre-assigned seat in regular economy but they preferred to give up the legroom in order to save money. That is the free market at work.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 10:15 am
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by floridastorm View Post
The FAA is studying it from a medical standpoint. Cramped seating, especially on flights that are over 5 hours, have been proved to cause or exacerbate the condition DVT (deep vein thrombosis) which is a life threatening condition. I believe recent studies have concluded that nearly 50% of people who fly, and most predominantly in economy class, end up with DVT type conditions which eventually causes blood clots in their arteries that find their way to the heart, brain, or lungs. This is one of the major causes of premature death in the United States. There are a multitude of safety regulations promulgated by OSHA for all companies in this country to protect employees. Without these safety regulations I'm wondering how many companies would do it on their own? The airlines fall under OSHA and I think that OSHA should be regulating seating requirements aboard airlines to protect against medical conditions like DVT.
Neither pitch nor seat width help or contribute to DVT, having a leg rest to get your thighs off the seat cushion would help with that. Nothing I have read says they FAA is looking at that?
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Old Oct 31, 18, 2:56 pm
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by floridastorm View Post
Some airlines actually proposed installing seats that would have the passengers literally standing up. They also proposed charging for bathroom use . . . .
Don't believe everything you read on the 'net.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 4:35 pm
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by AggieNzona View Post
Neither pitch nor seat width help or contribute to DVT, having a leg rest to get your thighs off the seat cushion would help with that. Nothing I have read says they FAA is looking at that?
From the CDC

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dvt/travel.html
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Old Oct 31, 18, 4:40 pm
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Originally Posted by ft101 View Post
Don't believe everything you read on the 'net.
I am not 5 years old. I actually do seek our reliable sources. Maybe you are just not up on things. Hmmmmmmm.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/s...eat/index.html

https://abcnews.go.com/Travel/Green/...ry?id=10355139
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Old Oct 31, 18, 9:49 pm
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Originally Posted by fotographer View Post
Agree with aggie, let the airlines decide what they want to provide their customers
However, if anyone is pressured not to recline their seat, provide for an automatic $10,000 payment, no questions asked. Likewise, if someone lifts an armrest and sits on someone because the seats are too narrow, provide for an automatic $10,000 in damages.

Based on the massive number of air rage incidents, seats that are super narrow or that have virtually no legroom are dangerous. They cause fights. Planes have to be diverted at great expense. As a matter of public policy many, many dangerous products are banned or regulated, and unreasonable airline seats should be among them.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 9:52 pm
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by LarryJ View Post
American, Delta, and United all offer economy seats with additional legroom for purchase. On United, roughly 25% to 35% of the economy seats have this extra legroom but those seats are usually the last to be selected. I frequently see seat maps with full regular economy sections and numerous available seats in Economy Plus. Those extra legroom seats were available to every passenger with a pre-assigned seat in regular economy but they preferred to give up the legroom in order to save money. That is the free market at work.
The extra legroom seats invariably come with other bells and whistles that run up the price well beyond the cost of extra space. Increasing seat pitch from 30 to 33 inches ought to cost only 10 percent more, but the airlines charge far more than this. Same for seat width.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 10:20 pm
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Originally Posted by floridastorm View Post
I am not 5 years old. I actually do seek our reliable sources. Maybe you are just not up on things. Hmmmmmmm.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/s...eat/index.html

https://abcnews.go.com/Travel/Green/...ry?id=10355139
If you believe these were serious proposals and not publicity grabs from Ryanair then I think we can see who is "just not up on things".
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Old Oct 31, 18, 11:53 pm
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Regulation is Needed

Regulation is absolutely needed. I just finished an AA flight from LAX to AKL on a 787. The pitch was crazy in my Econ seat. So close I could not lift my foot up and out because of the ridiculously close space. After 9 hours my knee began throbbing.
Traveling in economy shouldn’t be a jail sentence. Everyone deserves a minimum degree of comfort. If it costs more, so be it.

I also participated in an evac drill once. I was probably 19 at the time. We were all paid a stipend, and we never touched the overhead bins. It was simply a matter of get this over with, give me my money. But ... it was fun.
.
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Old Nov 1, 18, 4:16 am
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Originally Posted by Rebelyell View Post
However, if anyone is pressured not to recline their seat, provide for an automatic $10,000 payment, no questions asked. Likewise, if someone lifts an armrest and sits on someone because the seats are too narrow, provide for an automatic $10,000 in damages.

Based on the massive number of air rage incidents, seats that are super narrow or that have virtually no legroom are dangerous. They cause fights. Planes have to be diverted at great expense. As a matter of public policy many, many dangerous products are banned or regulated, and unreasonable airline seats should be among them.
Massive number? According to the FAA 2,587,000 people flew in and out of US airports on 42700 flights every day. (in 2016) What percentage of those passengers were involved in "air rage incidents"?? If, as I suspect, something like 99.999% of those 2.5 million people flew without causing fights or diverting flights... massive numbers?
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Old Nov 1, 18, 6:02 am
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Originally Posted by Rebelyell View Post
The extra legroom seats invariably come with other bells and whistles that run up the price well beyond the cost of extra space. Increasing seat pitch from 30 to 33 inches ought to cost only 10 percent more, but the airlines charge far more than this. Same for seat width.
But, ten percent of what?
  • The individual ticket price.
  • The average price of that specific flight.
  • The average price of fares between city pairs.
  • The average price of all flights with the same estimated flight duration.
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Old Nov 1, 18, 9:24 am
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Originally Posted by ft101 View Post
If you believe these were serious proposals and not publicity grabs from Ryanair then I think we can see who is "just not up on things".
Whether they were serious ideas or not they were proposed which makes me think that the airlines are doing everything they can to squeeze the last nickle out of revenue. They have just about exhausted anything that they can make you pay extra for. So, now their going off the deep end with their schemes. I hope that the FAA rules that they have to provide a modicome of comfort for the 98% of their customers that fly cattle class and that is the same pitch as most of the Asian airlines have which is 34 inches. If the Asian airlines can do it so can every other airline. They don't want to because they really don't give a darn about that 98%.
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Old Nov 1, 18, 10:26 am
  #73  
 
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I somewhat mind that airline seats are almost impossible for me to fit in because of my height, but probably not enough to want to make it a law. I always purchase extra legroom seats for this reason.

What infuriates me is that an airline can tell me "tough luck your seat is gone now you can seat in an impossibly small seat or give up on your flight". If I book a seat with specific characteristics for reasons outside my control, and the airline decides to not honor it, I am screwed.
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Old Nov 1, 18, 10:32 am
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That's a rather haughty position. Those of us who don't regularly fly F and/or J, who don't want to pay for more checked luggage, who can't afford to not have important things with us when we land (or during the flight, e.g. some food) and don't want to have to worry about lost checked luggage, and therefore bring hand luggage aboard are just the unimportant peasant class. No need to consider us as long as you have overhead bin space for your coat and can be the first off the plane.
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Old Nov 1, 18, 11:13 am
  #75  
 
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Originally Posted by writerguyfl View Post
But, ten percent of what?
  • The individual ticket price.
  • The average price of that specific flight.
  • The average price of fares between city pairs.
  • The average price of all flights with the same estimated flight duration.
Individual ticket price.
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