Originally Posted by AggieNzona
(Post 30355665)
Generally speaking I am a "let the market decide" kind of guy. I think the FAA is only going to study this from a safety standpoint and not a comfort one.
The likely standard will be in the 28-29" pitch IMHO and thus will have no impact. |
OSHA, of course, regulates US air carriers. But, its sole authority is for employee working conditions. It has zero authority to regulate passenger safety or comfort.
Bottom line is that this issue is dead, dead, dead. When something is sent off for study by a government agency, that is a nice way of saying that it is dead. |
The reality is airlines are becoming “utility” like and should be subject to some minimum regulation to prevent the kind of behaviors that create the problems we see today.
A simple formula that an airline seat can not be sold for less than $X cents per mile flown can level off the playing field and remove the driving forces causing sardine like conditions. Take PHL to MCO route. I have been flying that route for 4 years and have seen prices from $100 to $800 RT on AA with discounters often selling them for $49 each way. The route is 861 miles giving AA between 5.8 cents/mile and 46.4 cents/mile with discounters selling for roughly 5.6 cents/mile If the rule for a route of this range were set to be 10 cents a mile that means the MINIMUM price for a OW ticket is $86.10 and a RT is $172.20. Airlines can still set any price they like as long as it does not violate the minimum price. The minimum rule is there to prevent pricing wars that drive prices and product quality down. Having an equal baseline would force everyone to compete on the entire product and not just price for a seat. |
Originally Posted by AggieNzona
(Post 30355665)
Generally speaking I am a "let the market decide" kind of guy. I think the FAA is only going to study this from a safety standpoint and not a comfort one.
The likely standard will be in the 28-29" pitch IMHO and thus will have no impact. For comfort, the seat pitch needs to be 33-36" like it was before deregulation. Those who claim that the free market works or should work - should be asked to provide a proof. There is no free market, never was and never will - the free market is a theory that was never proven, and to the contrary today the USA market clearly proves that the free market is a pipe dream and that the market was damaged by the deregulation and permissiveness for consolidation. Research the issue of the seat pitch (e.g. https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...idth/16105491/) and stop the nonsensical pronouncements - please! |
Originally Posted by jwrogers
(Post 30372256)
There are several comments on here about consumers being able to choose ULCC and how consumers are the ones to blame for buying those tickets... but sometimes corporate travel policies specify "cheapest possible airfare", which sticks the traveler with no option. I'm not inclined to blame that traveler.
Originally Posted by Often1
(Post 30373173)
Bottom line is that this issue is dead, dead, dead. When something is sent off for study by a government agency, that is a nice way of saying that it is dead.
Originally Posted by PepeBorja
(Post 30373243)
The reality is airlines are becoming “utility” like and should be subject to some minimum regulation to prevent the kind of behaviors that create the problems we see today.
A simple formula that an airline seat can not be sold for less than $X cents per mile flown can level off the playing field and remove the driving forces causing sardine like conditions. Take PHL to MCO route. I have been flying that route for 4 years and have seen prices from $100 to $800 RT on AA with discounters often selling them for $49 each way. The route is 861 miles giving AA between 5.8 cents/mile and 46.4 cents/mile with discounters selling for roughly 5.6 cents/mile If the rule for a route of this range were set to be 10 cents a mile that means the MINIMUM price for a OW ticket is $86.10 and a RT is $172.20. Airlines can still set any price they like as long as it does not violate the minimum price. The minimum rule is there to prevent pricing wars that drive prices and product quality down. Having an equal baseline would force everyone to compete on the entire product and not just price for a seat. |
Originally Posted by fotographer
(Post 30355739)
Agree with aggie, let the airlines decide what they want to provide their customers
|
Originally Posted by HLCinCOU
(Post 30355941)
They already make airlines run evacuation tests on their proposed layouts.
Those employees are fit, thin, educated and not under stress. It's a total circus. |
Originally Posted by danielSuper
(Post 30373849)
They use airline employees for that test, once per decade for a type or so. I don't believe 28 inch pitch test was done at all, correct me if I'm wrong.
Those employees are fit, thin, educated and not under stress. It's a total circus. |
Originally Posted by PepeBorja
(Post 30373243)
The reality is airlines are becoming “utility” like and should be subject to some minimum regulation to prevent the kind of behaviors that create the problems we see today.
A simple formula that an airline seat can not be sold for less than $X cents per mile flown can level off the playing field and remove the driving forces causing sardine like conditions. Take PHL to MCO route. I have been flying that route for 4 years and have seen prices from $100 to $800 RT on AA with discounters often selling them for $49 each way. The route is 861 miles giving AA between 5.8 cents/mile and 46.4 cents/mile with discounters selling for roughly 5.6 cents/mile If the rule for a route of this range were set to be 10 cents a mile that means the MINIMUM price for a OW ticket is $86.10 and a RT is $172.20. Airlines can still set any price they like as long as it does not violate the minimum price. The minimum rule is there to prevent pricing wars that drive prices and product quality down. Having an equal baseline would force everyone to compete on the entire product and not just price for a seat. |
Originally Posted by Often1
(Post 30373173)
Bottom line is that this issue is dead, dead, dead. When something is sent off for study by a government agency, that is a nice way of saying that it is dead.
|
Originally Posted by HLCinCOU
(Post 30373959)
LarryJ's post above linked some details about the testing procedures. Your description doesn't sound like what's described there. Do you have a source?
(Sources: http://assets.documentcloud.org/docu...DC-Circuit.pdf) As an example, one evacuation test of A380 was done 12 years ago. There is a video of it |
Originally Posted by danielSuper
(Post 30374071)
I know how it's done, aka it's not done at all nowadays. It's simulated on computer.
(Sources: http://assets.documentcloud.org/docu...DC-Circuit.pdf) Flyers Rights challenges two aspects of the Administration’s denial of its petition for rulemaking: (1) its conclusion that current seat pitch and width, as well as passenger size, do not negatively impact emergency egress, and (2) its denial of authority to consider matters related to passenger health and comfort. We agree with Flyers Rights that the Administration failed to provide a plausible evidentiary basis for concluding that decreased seat sizes combined with increased passenger sizes have no effect on emergency egress. But we disagree with Flyers Rights’ challenge to the Administration’s declination to regulate matters of physical comfort and routine health.
Originally Posted by danielSuper
(Post 30374071)
As an example, one evacuation test of A380 was done 12 years ago. There is a video of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIaovi1JWyY
It's the most unrealistic stuff ever, those guys could compete in triathlon. And that Airbus was like 35 inch pitch economy. I want to see same test with 737 MAX with 29 inch pitch with a load of grandmas and kids to Florida and obese members reflecting population data. |
Originally Posted by m44
(Post 30373303)
The 28-29" is OK if one is classified as little people or a circus midget. For normal people, it is 32-33" just for safety and preservation of health.
For comfort, the seat pitch needs to be 33-36" like it was before deregulation. Those who claim that the free market works or should work - should be asked to provide a proof. There is no free market, never was and never will - the free market is a theory that was never proven, and to the contrary today the USA market clearly proves that the free market is a pipe dream and that the market was damaged by the deregulation and permissiveness for consolidation. Research the issue of the seat pitch (e.g. https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...idth/16105491/) and stop the nonsensical pronouncements - please! * Quoting The Atlantic - from an article of Feb 2013 "In 1974 it was illegal for an airline to charge less than $1442 in inflation adjusted dollars for a flight between New York City and Los Angeles." Want to go back to THAT? |
Originally Posted by CPRich
(Post 30361060)
Do you believe the reason the government should be involved in setting seat pitch is to assure passenger comfort? That seems to be what you're saying.
Why does the government have a role in the specifications of a product being sold beyond safety? Seems like getting the FDA involved in assuring only food that tastes good is approved for sale. What would airlines think they can "get away with"? There's no regulation today - what's been stopping them over the last decade? |
Airlines, just like any business that has a captive audience, will do whatever they legally can to make "maximum" profit since stockholders and bean counters are running everything these days. If the airlines could have people stand for the entire flight or take out bathrooms and galleys to make more room then they would. Some airlines actually proposed installing seats that would have the passengers literally standing up. They also proposed charging for bathroom use as if charging for checked bags, carry on bags, anything to drink and eat, to include paying for a specific seat (not a premium seat) was not enough. We have become a super egalitarian society where it's a race to the bottom. Everything is geared towards the lowest denominator and probably the reason we have 90 year old ladies pumping their own gasoline and a great many students who can't spell "It" or make change for a dollar.
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