Anxiety, fear of flying with Eva Air and Asian airlines
Sep 21, 2018, 7:02 pm
#16
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,184
They are regulated by the country in which they are licensed.
No, they don't. The FAA ability to oversee foreign airlines is rather limited as compared to their oversight of US airlines. They can inspect aircraft and required documents when the airplane is at a US airport but they can't inspect or oversee the airline's operations, training, and maintenance its own country. The International Aviation Safety Assessment Program accepts, or rejects, the country's civil aviation authority (CAA) but the oversight and inspection of the country's airline(s) are left up to their own CAA.
Lots more information here: https://www.faa.gov/travelers/international_travel/
We've all seen drivers who we feel are very safe and others who we judge to be reckless. Both drivers may be accident free but the equal results don't equate to equal risk. To evaluate the risk you have to evaluate the margin of safety; how many near misses they have; how close those near misses have come to an accident. You have to evaluate the airline's safety culture; how the airline collects data, identifies trends, and manages threats and errors. There are no simple "safe" or "unsafe" answers.
Lots more information here: https://www.faa.gov/travelers/international_travel/
We've all seen drivers who we feel are very safe and others who we judge to be reckless. Both drivers may be accident free but the equal results don't equate to equal risk. To evaluate the risk you have to evaluate the margin of safety; how many near misses they have; how close those near misses have come to an accident. You have to evaluate the airline's safety culture; how the airline collects data, identifies trends, and manages threats and errors. There are no simple "safe" or "unsafe" answers.
Sep 21, 2018, 9:39 pm
#17
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: AS 75K, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 80
They are regulated by the country in which they are licensed.
No, they don't. The FAA ability to oversee foreign airlines is rather limited as compared to their oversight of US airlines. They can inspect aircraft and required documents when the airplane is at a US airport but they can't inspect or oversee the airline's operations, training, and maintenance its own country. The International Aviation Safety Assessment Program accepts, or rejects, the country's civil aviation authority (CAA) but the oversight and inspection of the country's airline(s) are left up to their own CAA.
No, they don't. The FAA ability to oversee foreign airlines is rather limited as compared to their oversight of US airlines. They can inspect aircraft and required documents when the airplane is at a US airport but they can't inspect or oversee the airline's operations, training, and maintenance its own country. The International Aviation Safety Assessment Program accepts, or rejects, the country's civil aviation authority (CAA) but the oversight and inspection of the country's airline(s) are left up to their own CAA.
Sep 22, 2018, 6:43 am
#18
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
I have no anxiety flying long-haul international on any airline because of the various international agreements and requirements. It is very different however on an internal flight within a country where maintenance and training standards may be lower. There are airlines I'll fly internationally but won't fly domestically in their country of origin.
Sep 23, 2018, 1:03 am
#19
Join Date: May 2015
Location: South Florida
Programs: DL Skymiles KE Skypass
Posts: 2,362
Yes airlines are mainly regulated from the country that they operate, but any airline operating a flight to the US airspace is subject to approval of their practices from the FAA. Please see Thai's blacklist issues from both the EU and USA. The reality is if the FAA doesn't believe you are operating or maintaining the airplane per OEM requirements then you will get blacklisted from flying to the USA.
Sep 23, 2018, 5:14 am
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 13
They are regulated by the country in which they are licensed.
No, they don't. The FAA ability to oversee foreign airlines is rather limited as compared to their oversight of US airlines. They can inspect aircraft and required documents when the airplane is at a US airport but they can't inspect or oversee the airline's operations, training, and maintenance its own country. The International Aviation Safety Assessment Program accepts, or rejects, the country's civil aviation authority (CAA) but the oversight and inspection of the country's airline(s) are left up to their own CAA.
Lots more information here: https://www.faa.gov/travelers/international_travel/
We've all seen drivers who we feel are very safe and others who we judge to be reckless. Both drivers may be accident free but the equal results don't equate to equal risk. To evaluate the risk you have to evaluate the margin of safety; how many near misses they have; how close those near misses have come to an accident. You have to evaluate the airline's safety culture; how the airline collects data, identifies trends, and manages threats and errors. There are no simple "safe" or "unsafe" answers.
No, they don't. The FAA ability to oversee foreign airlines is rather limited as compared to their oversight of US airlines. They can inspect aircraft and required documents when the airplane is at a US airport but they can't inspect or oversee the airline's operations, training, and maintenance its own country. The International Aviation Safety Assessment Program accepts, or rejects, the country's civil aviation authority (CAA) but the oversight and inspection of the country's airline(s) are left up to their own CAA.
Lots more information here: https://www.faa.gov/travelers/international_travel/
We've all seen drivers who we feel are very safe and others who we judge to be reckless. Both drivers may be accident free but the equal results don't equate to equal risk. To evaluate the risk you have to evaluate the margin of safety; how many near misses they have; how close those near misses have come to an accident. You have to evaluate the airline's safety culture; how the airline collects data, identifies trends, and manages threats and errors. There are no simple "safe" or "unsafe" answers.
Yes airlines are mainly regulated from the country that they operate, but any airline operating a flight to the US airspace is subject to approval of their practices from the FAA. Please see Thai's blacklist issues from both the EU and USA. The reality is if the FAA doesn't believe you are operating or maintaining the airplane per OEM requirements then you will get blacklisted from flying to the USA.
Last edited by JY1024; Sep 23, 2018 at 7:41 am Reason: Merged consecutive posts
Sep 23, 2018, 6:01 am
#21
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold
Posts: 8,405
E.g. The nearly 550 people killed in the two MH crashes in 2014 had a significant on safety figures whereas an increase by 550 deaths would have barely changed the motor vehicle fatality rate in the US.
And what makes you think that the FAA is involved in the day to day operations of US airlines? Sure, they conduct spot inspections, etc. but they lack the financial and human resources to catch every problem. The reality is that the bulk of airlines is very safe and that there are numerous airlines that cut corners. That rule applies to pretty much region of the globe.
Sep 23, 2018, 6:53 am
#22
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,563
OP might like to know that a rising number of cockpit crews flying for the Asian airlines are Western-trained.
My son has worked as a university flight instructor in the US and certified numerous Taiwanese, Japanese, Chinese, etc. pilots to the same rigorous standards Americans must meet. He's also worked with Japanese civil aviation officials and at least one airline chief pilot to refine those standards. The young people who complete their training in the US return to their native countries to work, and from what I have been told they are just as competent as young American pilots you'd meet in the US regional system.
For many years you might hear a British, Australian, or Canadian accent from the Cathay Pacific or Malaysian flight deck -- but now the ranks of native-born talent is growing fast, and Western training is considered very desirable and prestigious. I would be as comfortable with those crews as any American-born talent.
My son has worked as a university flight instructor in the US and certified numerous Taiwanese, Japanese, Chinese, etc. pilots to the same rigorous standards Americans must meet. He's also worked with Japanese civil aviation officials and at least one airline chief pilot to refine those standards. The young people who complete their training in the US return to their native countries to work, and from what I have been told they are just as competent as young American pilots you'd meet in the US regional system.
For many years you might hear a British, Australian, or Canadian accent from the Cathay Pacific or Malaysian flight deck -- but now the ranks of native-born talent is growing fast, and Western training is considered very desirable and prestigious. I would be as comfortable with those crews as any American-born talent.
I have no anxiety flying long-haul international on any airline because of the various international agreements and requirements. It is very different however on an internal flight within a country where maintenance and training standards may be lower. There are airlines I'll fly internationally but won't fly domestically in their country of origin.
Sep 23, 2018, 8:53 am
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 13
Statistically it doesn't matter how many vehicles are used if you compare deaths/mile flown/driven. The number of vehicles, number of accidents and absolute numbers of deaths are more relevant when comparing year-to-year figures. A single fatal aircraft accident can change the year-to-year trend whereas the same number of deaths would not or only marginally influenced the trend observed for road traffic fatalities.
E.g. The nearly 550 people killed in the two MH crashes in 2014 had a significant on safety figures whereas an increase by 550 deaths would have barely changed the motor vehicle fatality rate in the US.
And what makes you think that the FAA is involved in the day to day operations of US airlines? Sure, they conduct spot inspections, etc. but they lack the financial and human resources to catch every problem. The reality is that the bulk of airlines is very safe and that there are numerous airlines that cut corners. That rule applies to pretty much region of the globe.
E.g. The nearly 550 people killed in the two MH crashes in 2014 had a significant on safety figures whereas an increase by 550 deaths would have barely changed the motor vehicle fatality rate in the US.
And what makes you think that the FAA is involved in the day to day operations of US airlines? Sure, they conduct spot inspections, etc. but they lack the financial and human resources to catch every problem. The reality is that the bulk of airlines is very safe and that there are numerous airlines that cut corners. That rule applies to pretty much region of the globe.
Compare this to some small Asian countries, some may only have one or two major airlines and these airlines are very powerful in that they can steer the media to there favor. Tawain is an example. I’m sure there are other non Asian countries are similar, I’m just speaking to what I’ve experienced. I know most of these airlines are very safe, It’s just my anxiety around the operations. LarryJ gave a great example on this.
Sep 24, 2018, 2:45 am
#24
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
OP should checkout the many incidents involving US airlines. Like the one on 30th August involving the American Airbus lined up to land at the wrong Fort Myers airport forcing a go around.
Sep 24, 2018, 3:32 am
#26
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 581
Unless ofcourse, you are willing to change your mindset.
Does Emirates offer good connectivity to where you are ? They have a very good reputation.
Sep 24, 2018, 4:03 am
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 13
Understand. I’m curious how many similar events happen elsewhere that go unreported.
Sep 24, 2018, 4:08 am
#28
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 13
Your choices are indeed limited then. If you are struggling to fly asian airlines for whatever reason, then you have to seek alternative transportation means, stop travelling or limited travel where your choice of airlines takes you.
Unless ofcourse, you are willing to change your mindset.
Does Emirates offer good connectivity to where you are ? They have a very good reputation.
Unless ofcourse, you are willing to change your mindset.
Does Emirates offer good connectivity to where you are ? They have a very good reputation.
Sep 24, 2018, 4:18 am
#29
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,338
That is a selection bias. Australia, the US, and other western countries only grant visas to the "smart" Asians, i.e., those that are recruited by a local company or have gained admission to a local university. Any random Asian cannot immigrate.
They look at the accident rate per passenger-mile travelled, so the number of cars and planes is already accounted for.
.
They look at the accident rate per passenger-mile travelled, so the number of cars and planes is already accounted for.
.
Sep 24, 2018, 4:24 am
#30
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,580
That isn't a useful metric because the moon is so far away, and there isn't much data since so few people have gone there. But when comparing cars and planes, which are on the same scale and often compete against each other, this metric is useful.