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I hate business travelers.

I hate business travelers.

Old May 7, 2018, 7:15 am
  #106  
 
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Originally Posted by NYTA
My view is that any item smaller than a rollaboard should go under the seat. Frankly I have seen just as many leisure travelers putting small bags (and duty free bags!) in the overheads that should be under their seats - taking space in the bins away that could be used for rollaboards. It's all a matter of incentives and priority etc. When I'm traveling for work, they'll have to pry my rollaboard out of my cold, dead hand to get it away from me. On low-cost airlines like Ryanair/Easyjet (which I fly several times a year within Europe), I pay extra for priority boarding and the ability to take a roller + personal item. Having airline status is the equivalent of having "paid extra" by having my butt in one of their seats (instead of those of their competitors) for 50,000+ miles a year. The airlines themselves want the business of "road warriors" much more than they do of the family of four going to Disney World once every few years.
So other people should make sacrifices so you do not have to make any, you literally just proved the OP right.
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Old May 7, 2018, 8:14 am
  #107  
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Originally Posted by ROCAT
So other people should make sacrifices so you do not have to make any, you literally just proved the OP right.
If I check a bag, my briefcase goes up top. Always.
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Old May 7, 2018, 9:51 am
  #108  
 
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I've met quite a few genuine 'road warriors' and by no means do I envy them. Sitting up front and lounge access aren't a luxury but a bare necessity if you fly a couple segments week-in week-out. Based on the stories I know, it's also a lifestyle that *will* affect your relationships on the ground. For every big time consultant, lawyer, touring celeb who's living it up in F on that LAX-NRT or LAX-CDG flight, there's 5 sales/IT/training dudes in jeans and sneakers who regularly sit 'up front' on a CRJ or ERJ from Louisville or Dayton to Houston or Atlanta and back.
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Old May 7, 2018, 10:00 am
  #109  
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Originally Posted by NYTA
My view is that any item smaller than a rollaboard should go under the seat. Frankly I have seen just as many leisure travelers putting small bags (and duty free bags!) in the overheads that should be under their seats - taking space in the bins away that could be used for rollaboards. It's all a matter of incentives and priority etc. When I'm traveling for work, they'll have to pry my rollaboard out of my cold, dead hand to get it away from me. On low-cost airlines like Ryanair/Easyjet (which I fly several times a year within Europe), I pay extra for priority boarding and the ability to take a roller + personal item. Having airline status is the equivalent of having "paid extra" by having my butt in one of their seats (instead of those of their competitors) for 50,000+ miles a year. The airlines themselves want the business of "road warriors" much more than they do of the family of four going to Disney World once every few years.

NYTA, while you are entitled to your opinion, it is only one person's viewpoint and not necessarily the 'right' one.

I no longer need to travel on business, all my travel is personal travel. Now I pay for my seat every time, in whatever class I fly in and guess what, my right to use an overhead bin is just the same as your right to do so. Or would you disagree with that? The overhead bin space is NOT there just for rollaboards, it is there for whatever a passenger wishes to put in it. It is sheer arrogance to try and suggest that your rollaboard should receive preferential treatment over anything I choose to put in an overhead bin.

You are exhibiting classic DYKWIA behaviour in thinking that somehow your needs are greater than someone else's needs. You have no more entitlement to use overhead space than that family of 4 going to Disneyland. When I travel, I check one bag and carry on only a briefcase size bag and perhaps a coat. If I choose to put my bag and coat in the overhead bin, I am as entitled to do so as you with your rollaboard. And while you are 'looking down' on those non-business travellers, I am 'looking down' on those business travellers like yourself who think they are entitled to more than I am. After all, you're just working class, I've moved beyond that into the leisure class.
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Old May 7, 2018, 10:15 am
  #110  
 
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Originally Posted by bitterproffit
But I also recognize how difficult it was to sometimes travel for work especially when you didn't want to. There is a lot of powerlessness in business travel as well. You are going where you have to go, not where you want to go. And I think that powerlessness makes most of us want to then try to control what we can, and that is our personal space, or our temporary domicile, or our seat. That might be what is often behind the DYKWIA attitude; a need to control what you can, because you are not in control of so much else.

Now, when I travel, its for choice. And I look at the people around me who are acting in the way to OP describes, I usually just feel sorry for them. Oh, you are going to Berlin for a meeting? Nice. While you are in that meeting, I might be practicing FKK in the Tiergarten. So enjoy your high powered business meeting. I'm going to enjoy this book, a bottle of beer, and a nice ham sandwich in the sun.
Nice post. I have never traveled for business, my field doesn't travel, we have no extra money. But I often kinda feel for these people, discussing numbers and sales goals all the time, racing around glued to their cell phones. I recently sat in a hotel restaurant in London on leisure travel and a table of business travelers was to my left. They talked about some every day matters and then began discussing their panic attacks. When they started, when they get them, how often. All about work and mostly around travel. There were four people at the table and they ALL reported on their attacks. Sad, really.
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Old May 7, 2018, 10:31 am
  #111  
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Originally Posted by RAAng
Nice post. I have never traveled for business, my field doesn't travel, we have no extra money. But I often kinda feel for these people, discussing numbers and sales goals all the time, racing around glued to their cell phones. I recently sat in a hotel restaurant in London on leisure travel and a table of business travelers was to my left. They talked about some every day matters and then began discussing their panic attacks. When they started, when they get them, how often. All about work and mostly around travel. There were four people at the table and they ALL reported on their attacks. Sad, really.
but hey, at least they have airline status
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Old May 7, 2018, 12:03 pm
  #112  
 
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I find I get more annoyed by inexperienced leisure travelers than I do by road warriors/elites/frequent travelers. YMMV. I can definitely see how some of the more shamelessly arrogant behaviors grate, though they are rarer.

Hell to me is getting stuck while checking into a hotel behind the "why do I need to pay a deposit?!" kettle who swears this has never happened before. Oh dear God. That argument always goes in circles for 15 minutes, and I wonder when they last booked a hotel room that didn't take any deposit.
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Old May 7, 2018, 12:04 pm
  #113  
 
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Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis
NYTA, while you are entitled to your opinion, it is only one person's viewpoint and not necessarily the 'right' one.

I no longer need to travel on business, all my travel is personal travel. Now I pay for my seat every time, in whatever class I fly in and guess what, my right to use an overhead bin is just the same as your right to do so. Or would you disagree with that? The overhead bin space is NOT there just for rollaboards, it is there for whatever a passenger wishes to put in it. It is sheer arrogance to try and suggest that your rollaboard should receive preferential treatment over anything I choose to put in an overhead bin.

You are exhibiting classic DYKWIA behaviour in thinking that somehow your needs are greater than someone else's needs. You have no more entitlement to use overhead space than that family of 4 going to Disneyland. When I travel, I check one bag and carry on only a briefcase size bag and perhaps a coat. If I choose to put my bag and coat in the overhead bin, I am as entitled to do so as you with your rollaboard. And while you are 'looking down' on those non-business travellers, I am 'looking down' on those business travellers like yourself who think they are entitled to more than I am. After all, you're just working class, I've moved beyond that into the leisure class.
I never said my needs were greater than anyone else's or that I look down on anyone, but the airlines have decided that by giving "priority boarding" to their "elite" customers, that those customers get first pick of what to put in the overhead bins - I choose to put my rollaboard there. This is in keeping with the airline rules for carry on luggage and neither you nor any of the posters here have any right to judge me for doing so. I would never suggest, if I was late for a flight and there was no room in the overhead, that an occasional leisure traveler take his/her stuff out of the overhead to accommodate me. The airlines have decided that their elite travelers get "priority" over the occasional leisure travelers and thus I have the right - given to me by the airline - to put my stuff there as I get on the plane first. This is a key factor for me in choosing to fly Star Alliance, vs. SkyTeam or OneWorld currently and that's exactly how the airline executives want it.

Oh and BTW - I own my own business so I'm paying for the tickets myself - both for me and my employees.
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Old May 7, 2018, 12:25 pm
  #114  
 
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Originally Posted by Amelorn
I find I get more annoyed by inexperienced leisure travelers than I do by road warriors/elites/frequent travelers. YMMV. I can definitely see how some of the more shamelessly arrogant behaviors grate, though they are rarer.

Hell to me is getting stuck while checking into a hotel behind the "why do I need to pay a deposit?!" kettle who swears this has never happened before. Oh dear God. That argument always goes in circles for 15 minutes, and I wonder when they last booked a hotel room that didn't take any deposit.
Right, so we could just as easily create a 'I hate leisure travelers' thread and complain about them. And of course, as a business traveler, I'd much prefer that everyone on the flight also be a business traveler so that they would be more aligned with how I fly. It's very frustrating when there is a delay or some issue and I hear the leisure travelers saying 'but you don't understand, I NEED to be there tonight' to the gate agents, while the business travelers are more resigned and less surprised - they just start rebooking and get it over with.

But, I don't hate the leisure travelers who make boarding and security slower, can be noisy, stressed out, etc. Sometimes, I am one of those - I fly with 2 kids regularly. And there are some people, like the original poster of this thread (ironically) who are new to flying and don't always have the same perspective of those who have been grinding it out for 20 years.

Most of the people on a flight are cool. Almost every parent of every screaming baby is doing their best to calm their kid down, and is feeling embarrassed and frustrated as their older kid kicks the back of my seat. The people yelling at the gate agent or trying to put their roller in the overhead compartment the wrong way is doing their best - they don't fly enough to know 'wheels first'. The business traveler who gets on first because they travel a lot and don't want to check their bag isn't hogging overhead' space to inconvenience those in group 4, who will have to gate-check their rollers. They are just going to work.

In every circumstance, in every population and demographic there will be arrogant, self-important people but I don't accept that biz travelers or leisure travelers are better or worse.

It would be fun to make a tread like, 'Business travelers vs. leisure travelers' and compare the two. We just need a simple thread-rule that making judgements about intelligence, arrogance, kindness, etc. is not allowed. For example, one thing I love about UA347 on a Monday morning is that it's packed with biz travelers going DEN to LGA. Probably 80% of the flight are consultants and people that are doing Monday to Thursday work around NYC - I was one of them And wow that flight boards quickly! Group 2 is incredibly long because everyone has status Everyone knows where their seat is. Everyone knows the roller goes wheels-first. Most of the travelers are solo so it's generally quiet during boarding. Few if any wheelchairs. Because of all this, the FA's are usually pretty calm and in a good mood. When I used to do that flight 3 times x month, I really appreciated that the boarding process was calm and quiet.

Now try a Saturday flight from BKK to HKT (Phuket) in December. It's 90% tourists, mosts dressed in flipflops and shorts. They are having fun, and excited to be there. Many of them haven't traveled in Asia much if it all. The boarding process takes forever and there are not many rollers but tons of irregular bags and backpacks everywhere - the overheads are chaos! On a flight like that, I enjoy chatting with tourists and maybe even giving some recommendations. But, if I were a business traveler on that flight I'd kinda just want to get there

Everyone has the right to be there and with rare exceptions, people are well behaved - just different.
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Old May 7, 2018, 12:47 pm
  #115  
 
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I totally get the where the OP is coming from and agree. I so try not to be that person anymore.....
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Old May 7, 2018, 1:19 pm
  #116  
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Old May 7, 2018, 1:43 pm
  #117  
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Originally Posted by NYTA
The airlines have decided that their elite travelers get "priority" over the occasional leisure travelers and thus I have the right - given to me by the airline - to put my stuff there as I get on the plane first. This is a key factor for me in choosing to fly Star Alliance, vs. SkyTeam or OneWorld currently and that's exactly how the airline executives want it.
Absolutely correct. Nevertheless, a certain breed of casual traveller lives under the delusion that they are equally important as the frequent fliers. It comes as a severe shock to them when they discover they are far lower on the airline's priority list. It's the same as regular diners at fine restaurants getting nicer tables and season ticket holders having better seats at sporting events.

It's smart business. Understandably, the airlines are more interested in retaining the experienced flier who annually brings them 6 figures plus than the twice a year complainer who shops the airlines to find the lowest possible fare.
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Old May 7, 2018, 3:00 pm
  #118  
 
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I'm amused by "DYKWIA" jerk behavior being tied to frequent business travelers. I see DYKWIA behavior all over the place, not just from a few elite travelers. Even infrequent travelers play the DYKWIA card. I can tell which ones they are because they loudly demand things that are completely out of line compared to how airline/hotel policies and programs actually work, and/or repeatedly emphasize their silver/general member status as if that meant anything.

There's also DYKWIA-ness outside of the travel industry. I come across people all the time with astonishing senses of entitlement and personal importance on the road, on the sidewalk, in the hallways, and even on the trail.
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Old May 7, 2018, 3:22 pm
  #119  
 
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Most of the OP's observations seem to deal with business travelers talking loudly or being obnoxious in bars or on board. I must admit, I don't see much of this. Seems to me most business travelers are solo. And I am just trying to make my work travel to some meeting as simple and pleasant as possible. If that means boarding first and using a rollaboard (which I don't do that much - I frequently check luggage), and, if it can be managed with a TOD or an upgrade, sitting up front, then that is what I will do. As a consequence, I'm generally in a good mood, try not to let IRROPs bother me (and for which I plan ahead), and am pleasant to other passengers and the FAs, whether they are to me or not. Nor do leisure travelers seem bothersome to me, even though sometimes they don't seem to know what they are doing and slow things down. We were all there once. (Though I will remark that every really bad experience I have had with fellow passengers on airlines was in international economy, and though I could not tell you whether those were business or leisure travelers, I suspect leisure.) Generally, I think the most important thing in travel is your attitude towards it. Learning more about how the system works has markedly improved my experience and my attitude.
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Old May 7, 2018, 3:32 pm
  #120  
 
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Originally Posted by Artpen100
Learning more about how the system works has markedly improved my experience and my attitude.
True, the more I learn about the incredible complexity of keeping thousands of flights going around the world every day with such a high level of safety, the more I am humbled by the whole thing and more able to tolerate the occasional problem.
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