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-   -   What would you do in an emergency evacuation? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1886751-what-would-you-do-emergency-evacuation.html)

KDS777 Jan 7, 2018 2:13 pm

And you can most likely and very easily get some replacement meds from EMS wherever you are.

Toshbaf Jan 7, 2018 2:13 pm


Originally Posted by spades097 (Post 29262475)
You need to repeat over and over again until it sinks in: "I am not in charge while on board an aircraft. I am not in charge while on board an aircraft."

Flight attendants love that! Interference with a crew when you ask them a question they don't like!

Someone sitting in your seat? Act like sheep or get arrested for interference with a crew member!

Toshbaf Jan 7, 2018 2:16 pm


Originally Posted by KDS777 (Post 29262504)
And you can most likely and very easily get some replacement meds from EMS wherever you are.

That is not true.

But the point is well taken. If there is an evacuation, the default should be to run like a bat out of hell. I would usually do that. Only in rare circumstances where there's no real danger would I get my luggage.

KDS777 Jan 7, 2018 2:18 pm

I am going to disagree, because, I travel with meds (a non-serious type) and the normal amount of time before you are required to take another dose, and the ramfications of missing one, is going to be the mitigating factor.

If you are flying in the first world, or even in many third world locations as I have, and you have such a "rare and unobtainable prescription" that it cannot be filled in an "emergency situation" within 48 hours, or you will die, you should not be flying.

tatterdema Jan 7, 2018 2:42 pm


Originally Posted by KDS777 (Post 29262524)
I am going to disagree, because, within the normal amount of time you are required to take another dose, is going to be the mitigating factor.

If you are flying in the first world, or even in many third world locations as I have, and you have such a "rare and unobtainable prescription" that it cannot be filled in an "emergency situation" within 48 hours, or you will die, you should not be flying.

Sadly there are meds like that. My moms parkinson meds had to be taken within 15 minutes of every 4 hours or a snowball effect starts, that very well could be life threatening. When I traveled with her, those meds were in my toiletry bag stored under my arm rest. Those meds went everywhere with her, even to the hospital emergency room, where it could take 24 hours or more to get them from the pharmacy. It is a pretty rare and expensive medication that no pharmacy I know of carries in stock.

But anyone with such needs should be prepared for that, not limit their activities. I can do without my meds, but I still keep them within reach at all times while on a plane.

I am always amused at people shivering in the Seattle airport waiting for their plane to Hawaii or Mexico, dressed in shorts and tank tops, wearing flip flops. Lol, I wear normal clothes and change at the arriving airport from my carryon while waiting for my checked luggage.

Kevin AA Jan 7, 2018 3:24 pm


Originally Posted by Toshbaf (Post 29262301)
I posted about taking my luggage because there's a small chance that I'd do that. I'm not stupid and would leave it behind in many cases.

If there's smoke in the cabin, no way am I standing up. Ditto if there if fire outside or pouring smoke. There wouldn't be too many cases where they inflate the slides but it's not too major. Some examples, include

Southwest Airlines 737 nose wheel collapses at LGA. Slides deployed. No fire or smoke. Why not save your luggage?
Southwest Airlines 737 overrun accident at BUR. Slides deployed. No fire or smoke.


On the other hand, I would run for my life when

Black smoke pouring out of an engine of a British Airways 777 at LAS.
Fuselage broken open and flames in the cabin of an Air France A340 after a rough landing and overrun of the runway at YYZ.

No airline wants to say it's ok to get luggage for legal reasons. I would err on the side of leaving luggage if not sure.

Must be nice to know that a fire won't start. Do you think you could loan your crystal ball to the cockpit where it would be of far better use? :rolleyes:

If someone is getting their stuff out of the overhead bin in front of me, you're going to get trampled.

kb9522 Jan 7, 2018 3:36 pm


Originally Posted by Badenoch (Post 29262393)
You don't get to decide what is serious or not in the moment. If the order to evacuate is given follow it. You will not delay my departure pissing around with your stuff. You will be moved aside.

:rolleyes:

kb9522 Jan 7, 2018 3:40 pm


Originally Posted by KDS777 (Post 29262504)
And you can most likely and very easily get some replacement meds from EMS wherever you are.

EMTs and paramedics do not operate a pharmacy. They do not give out drugs unless the regional protocol calls for it for a specific intervention.

kb9522 Jan 7, 2018 3:45 pm

It seems to me the people in this thread talking about trampling or otherwise moving others by force without regard for the severity of the emergency are more the problem than those opting to remove their luggage based on the situation. I wonder if these are the same people that complain about in flight drink limits or suggest those with anxiety get hopped up on Xanax. Seems a bit hypocritical.

OccasionalFlyerPerson Jan 7, 2018 4:12 pm


Originally Posted by kb9522 (Post 29262799)
It seems to me the people in this thread talking about trampling or otherwise moving others by force without regard for the severity of the emergency are more the problem than those opting to remove their luggage based on the situation. I wonder if these are the same people that complain about in flight drink limits or suggest those with anxiety get hopped up on Xanax. Seems a bit hypocritical.

I disagree. Passengers on a plane don't know what is going on outside the cabin. One thing I did before a world trip recently was to read up about plane crashes. One thing that was pointed out several times is that it might look like everything's OK, but there is a fire on the plane which is not immediately obvious. And the time between smoke being noticed and death can be an incredibly short time.

People trying (entirely reasonably) to get off the plane don't know that you magically know that you'll be able to take the time to get your luggage and then leave the plane with there still being enough time to safely leave.

Those that act aggressively in such a situation may be part of the problem, but those that block aisles are at least as much to blame, if not more. If there isn't anyone blocking the way off the plane, then there won't be the motivation for those actually following directions to get frustrated and aggressive. Even if you do have some magical way of knowing how long you have to get off the plane, which you don't, others don't know that and therefore there may be physical disputes.

It isn't rocket science. If you're told to get off the plane, get of the ferkin' plane. Without delay. Anything else is simply plain stupid.


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 29261434)
Second this. If I have to leave my luggage I would have serious doubts about whether I would ever see the expensive stuff in it, or compensation for that stuff it was destroyed.

<sarcasm>Which of course is so much more important than your life and the lives of other people on the plane.</sarcasm>

EDIT: Oh, and there's a simple solution for those who believe that magically know that it's fully safe to fetch luggage from the overheads before leaving. Simply let others off the plane, and when the aisles are empty, then fetch your luggage from the overheads and leave. If it's not safe to do that, then it's not safe for others if you fetch your luggage from the overheads while others are trying to leave the plane.

kb9522 Jan 7, 2018 4:38 pm


Originally Posted by OccasionalFlyerPerson (Post 29262885)
I disagree. Passengers on a plane don't know what is going on outside the cabin. One thing I did before a world trip recently was to read up about plane crashes. One thing that was pointed out several times is that it might look like everything's OK, but there is a fire on the plane which is not immediately obvious. And the time between smoke being noticed and death can be an incredibly short time.

People trying (entirely reasonably) to get off the plane don't know that you magically know that you'll be able to take the time to get your luggage and then leave the plane with there still being enough time to safely leave.

Those that act aggressively in such a situation may be part of the problem, but those that block aisles are at least as much to blame, if not more. If there isn't anyone blocking the way off the plane, then there won't be the motivation for those actually following directions to get frustrated and aggressive. Even if you do have some magical way of knowing how long you have to get off the plane, which you don't, others don't know that and therefore there may be physical disputes.

It isn't rocket science. If you're told to get off the plane, get of the ferkin' plane. Without delay. Anything else is simply plain stupid.



<sarcasm>Which of course is so much more important than your life and the lives of other people on the plane.</sarcasm>

EDIT: Oh, and there's a simple solution for those who believe that magically know that it's fully safe to fetch luggage from the overheads before leaving. Simply let others off the plane, and when the aisles are empty, then fetch your luggage from the overheads and leave. If it's not safe to do that, then it's not safe for others if you fetch your luggage from the overheads while others are trying to leave the plane.

The failure of those with information about the event to communicate the details is a separate issue. This is why people who have said they would consider taking their carry on did so with the caveat that context is known.

tatterdema Jan 7, 2018 4:55 pm

Just a thought, but having watched how quickly they send people down those slides, I really do not want the person in front of me carrying luggage that I am going to land on, or the person behind me sending down their luggage that is going to bang me on my head.

kb9522 Jan 7, 2018 5:11 pm


Originally Posted by tatterdema (Post 29262997)
Just a thought, but having watched how quickly they send people down those slides, I really do not want the person in front of me carrying luggage that I am going to land on, or the person behind me sending down their luggage that is going to bang me on my head.

I mean it goes without saying that you should maintain situational awareness.

nlkm9 Jan 7, 2018 5:42 pm


Originally Posted by CarolynUK (Post 29261352)
That’s one of the problems with allowing so much carry on baggage - passengers have all their belongings in the cabin with them, and don’t realise that the few seconds it takes them to grab their bags is the difference between life and death for those behind them.

safety briefings should emphasis the fact that carry on bags should be left strictly alone in an emergency evacuation -get yourself out quickly and safely, and allow others to do the same

yes but to plays devils advocate, Im sure due to the fees way more people pack very heavily and bring what they can on plane.....its all common sense and not being a moron if there is an emergency.

Ca77andra Jan 7, 2018 5:55 pm

Great question!!

I fly with my small dog under the seat in front of me. So it might look like I'm grabbing a bag and it's really my dog. So I'd ask all y'all to be alert to those with small animals in carriers.

Which begs the question: should I take him out? It would be more cumbersome to do that than just grab the bag.

Badenoch Jan 7, 2018 6:08 pm


Originally Posted by OccasionalFlyerPerson (Post 29262885)
Oh, and there's a simple solution for those who believe that magically know that it's fully safe to fetch luggage from the overheads before leaving. Simply let others off the plane, and when the aisles are empty, then fetch your luggage from the overheads and leave. If it's not safe to do that, then it's not safe for others if you fetch your luggage from the overheads while others are trying to leave the plane.

Exactly right. Those who choose to dawdle and want to pick up their stuff during an evacuation order can sit down until the rest of us leave. We can then stand on the tarmac and listen for their screams of agony as they die in an inferno of burning aviation fuel. The next of kin will be informed that their loved ones sacrificed their lives trying to save their suitcases. Greater love hath no man than this; that he lay down his life for his Tumi. :rolleyes:

PTravel Jan 7, 2018 6:18 pm


Originally Posted by Ca77andra (Post 29263160)
Great question!!

I fly with my small dog under the seat in front of me. So it might look like I'm grabbing a bag and it's really my dog. So I'd ask all y'all to be alert to those with small animals in carriers.

Which begs the question: should I take him out? It would be more cumbersome to do that than just grab the bag.

The life of your pet is not of equal value to the lives of the other human beings on the plane. There is no "unless you have a pet" exception to "leave all carry-on behind."

tatterdema Jan 7, 2018 6:26 pm


Originally Posted by Ca77andra (Post 29263160)
Great question!!

I fly with my small dog under the seat in front of me. So it might look like I'm grabbing a bag and it's really my dog. So I'd ask all y'all to be alert to those with small animals in carriers.

Which begs the question: should I take him out? It would be more cumbersome to do that than just grab the bag.

Well now that is a pickle, isn't it. I am sure some people would rather you leave that dog on the plane. I would burn with my cat before I would leave him on the plane. I have an evacuation plan in my condo that includes my cat. :D Of course he is a mean B*stard, so I could just take him out, and he would clear a path to the front for me. ;)

C W Jan 7, 2018 6:35 pm

People who try to get bags during emergency evacuations should be prosecuted.

It should be part of the safety briefing, just like announcements about smoking penalties: anybody who opens an overhead or carries a bag during an emergency evacuation will be charged with felony reckless endangerment.

ricski64 Jan 7, 2018 7:15 pm


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 29263209)
The life of your pet is not of equal value to the lives of the other human beings on the plane. There is no "unless you have a pet" exception to "leave all carry-on behind."

i am currently on Westjet itinerary and was explicitly told that in the event of an emergency I could remove Fido from kennel and evacuate the craft with dog in arms.
As to whether an animals life is less “value” as to a humans. There are plenty of examples where humans activity on board (in none emergency situation) makes me love my dog even more.

PTravel Jan 7, 2018 7:42 pm


Originally Posted by ricski64 (Post 29263352)
i am currently on Westjet itinerary and was explicitly told that in the event of an emergency I could remove Fido from kennel and evacuate the craft with dog in arms.
As to whether an animals life is less “value” as to a humans. There are plenty of examples where humans activity on board (in none emergency situation) makes me love my dog even more.

All I can say is, if I'm board with you in an emergency evacuation, and you hold me or my wife up while you deal with your pet, I'm going around you . . . or over you. Sorry, but I'm not risking my or my wife's life for your pet.

Annalisa12 Jan 7, 2018 9:52 pm


Originally Posted by Toshbaf (Post 29260124)

I also ask that the passenger in the window seat open the shades on landing at least half way so one can see if there's fire on that side. Only once did the passenger refuse. She was militant and probably felt she was a lifelong victim of discrimination so she had to insist on her way.

Every landing I have had has been with shadescup. It wasn't a choice by passengers to make.

abmj-jr Jan 7, 2018 9:54 pm

delete

DragonSoul Jan 7, 2018 9:57 pm

Having had to 'participate' in an evacuation (1970s), I am ready to crawl over seats and bodies to get out. It was mayhem and chaos - and frightening, but fortunately no fire or smoke. And this was a time before passengers toted massive and multiple carry-ons; at most, people had a small bag.

People are notoriously bad at risk assessment, and this includes when there is an emergency. As others have mentioned, people revert to normalcy, which in the case of getting off a plane is to grab baggage. Perhaps the seats nearer the exits can be given to those willing to forego evacuating with their luggage, leaving those who can't/won't manage that sitting further away from the exits and required to exit last, even after the crew. It's about making people think about the situation BEFORE they get on the plane. "Yes, check-in person, I want to leave with my carry-on in the case of an emergency, and am willing to die for the soiled underwear in my carry-on."

Rambling rant...

FlyingHoustonian Jan 7, 2018 10:03 pm

I am fairly sure what I would do as well because I have been through the FAA's smoke/evac training lab at OKC several times as part of my Air Force and NATO training and have actually had to use the slide once at NATO off the E-3 (707). Listening to the FA's is very important; in terms of opening an emergency hatch on the exit row I have done it many times so likely training would still kick in should it be the proper circumstance. The only minor difference in training I recall with evacs in general is whether to place the hatch inside or outside the aircraft with different orgs have slightly different rules. Otherwise it is a fairly standard worldwide system, even for the militaries.

trooper Jan 7, 2018 10:03 pm

I was once asked what steps I would take in an Emergency....

Apparently "Effing BIG ones" wasn't the answer they were looking for........:D

(an oldie but a goodie....)

chrisl137 Jan 7, 2018 11:06 pm


Originally Posted by Toshbaf (Post 29262301)
Southwest Airlines 737 overrun accident at BUR. Slides deployed. No fire or smoke.

If I remember the news coverage correctly, they had trouble accounting for everyone on board because some people just got off with their luggage and went home. The overrun left them about a 2 minute walk to VSP and Lot C, and almost in Lot B. It was a flight from LAS to BUR, so it's not unusual to have only a small carry-on or just a personal item.

CDTraveler Jan 7, 2018 11:25 pm


Originally Posted by C W (Post 29263252)
People who try to get bags during emergency evacuations should be prosecuted.

It should be part of the safety briefing, just like announcements about smoking penalties: anybody who opens an overhead or carries a bag during an emergency evacuation will be charged with felony reckless endangerment.

What a ridiculous suggestion.

Exactly how would you track "People who try to get bags" in a smoke filled cabin? Install infrared cameras, maybe? What jurisdiction would they be prosecuted in? Local, state, or are you making it a federal crime? Have the FAA go through the wreckage, and try to ID the owners of bags not in the bins? Of course, bins do come open sometimes on hard landings, so the mere fact a bin is open wouldn't be proof a passenger was guilty of opening it.

Or maybe you want that crime added to the international air travel agreements between countries, so its a world wide crime? :rolleyes:

OccasionalFlyerPerson Jan 8, 2018 1:05 am


Originally Posted by kb9522 (Post 29262946)
The failure of those with information about the event to communicate the details is a separate issue. This is why people who have said they would consider taking their carry on did so with the caveat that context is known.

But, you don't have information; that's the whole point. You may believe that you have information, but fire can spread very quickly.


Originally Posted by kb9522 (Post 29263054)
I mean it goes without saying that you should maintain situational awareness.

This is plain ridiculous. If you're leaving the plane in an emergency it is not your responsibility to be avoiding additional obstacles or injury due to baggage being carried by those leaving before and after you.

DragonSoul Jan 8, 2018 1:57 am


Originally Posted by kb9522 (Post 29262946)


The failure of those with information about the event to communicate the details is a separate issue. This is why people who have said they would consider taking their carry on did so with the caveat that context is known.

Sometimes the context is known (Asiana 2013)...


But people still will grab carry-ons and their precious duty free.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...dd9aec5948.jpg

kb9522 Jan 8, 2018 6:15 am


Originally Posted by OccasionalFlyerPerson (Post 29264134)
But, you don't have information; that's the whole point. You may believe that you have information, but fire can spread very quickly.



This is plain ridiculous. If you're leaving the plane in an emergency it is not your responsibility to be avoiding additional obstacles or injury due to baggage being carried by those leaving before and after you.

Right, you're not responsible for your own safety... that's someone else's job! :rolleyes:

Badenoch Jan 8, 2018 7:56 am


Originally Posted by kb9522 (Post 29264710)
Right, you're not responsible for your own safety... that's someone else's job! :rolleyes:

Situational awareness is important. Mine has brought me through safely several times during a varied and interesting career. Mine concludes that if the people running the aircraft give an evacuation order I am not going to stand there because in your infinite wisdom you believe the situation is not so serious and the rest of us should wait while you get your luggage. I am responsible for my own safety and won't compromise mine because of your peculiar need to carry your possessions off a plane that might be on fire. Get moving or get out of the way.

OTD Jan 8, 2018 7:56 am

I'm one of the few people I see actually looking for the nearest exits during the safety briefing. My main concern is that if the nearest exit is indeed behind me, it won't matter because I suspect most people's reaction will be to head toward the front of the plane.

wrp96 Jan 8, 2018 8:10 am


Originally Posted by OTD (Post 29265000)
I'm one of the few people I see actually looking for the nearest exits during the safety briefing. My main concern is that if the nearest exit is indeed behind me, it won't matter because I suspect most people's reaction will be to head toward the front of the plane.

I count rows forward and aft as soon as I step on the plane. In the dark in an emergency, I want to know that I can get out by feel. I do something similar with hotels by counting doorways to the emergency exits. I also keep a small flashlight in my purse, which happens to be on my person at all times. It also has my phone, meds, and ID. That's all I need. No need to stop and grab anything - everything I need is on my person. Nothing that can easily fly about or catch on something hindering or injuring myself or someone else.

kb9522 Jan 8, 2018 9:56 am


Originally Posted by DragonSoul (Post 29264220)
Sometimes the context is known (Asiana 2013)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXDalv7kNQ

But people still will grab carry-ons and their precious duty free.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...dd9aec5948.jpg

How many of them died because people stopped to get their luggage? One died because they weren't wearing a seatbelt, one got run over by a fire truck, and one died from being hit by a door.

LTBoston Jan 8, 2018 10:48 am

I just don't understand why there is any debate about this. It's one thing if people in an emergency situation are slow to react or revert to "normalcy" as described above. But making a *conscious decision* to hold up an evacuation to collect a carry-on based on one's own subjective assessment of the risk (which may or may not be accurate given the limited information available to passengers) is one of the most irresponsible things I've ever heard.

DIRECT MERIT Jan 8, 2018 11:03 am


Originally Posted by LTBoston (Post 29265720)
I just don't understand why there is any debate about this. It's one thing if people in an emergency situation are slow to react or revert to "normalcy" as described above. But making a *conscious decision* to hold up an evacuation to collect a carry-on based on one's own subjective assessment of the risk (which may or may not be accurate given the limited information available to passengers) is one of the most irresponsible things I've ever heard.

This.

OccasionalFlyerPerson Jan 8, 2018 12:14 pm


Originally Posted by kb9522 (Post 29264710)


Right, you're not responsible for your own safety... that's someone else's job! :rolleyes:

That's a complete non-sequitur from my post. You are talking about people taking luggage down the slide when they should not be. They people taking the luggage are causing the problem; they are in the wrong. It simply isn't other people's responsibility to avoid luggage taken somewhere that it has no right to be, causing potentially life-threatening obstructions.

It's quite simple: if it's an emergency, you GTFO the plane. You don't stop to grab your luggage because you're so self-obsessed and entitled that your 'gizmos' are worth more than other people's lives.


Originally Posted by LTBoston (Post 29265720)
I just don't understand why there is any debate about this. It's one thing if people in an emergency situation are slow to react or revert to "normalcy" as described above. But making a *conscious decision* to hold up an evacuation to collect a carry-on based on one's own subjective assessment of the risk (which may or may not be accurate given the limited information available to passengers) is one of the most irresponsible things I've ever heard.

Self-obsession and entitlement. See the post quoted at the top of this post.

kb9522 Jan 8, 2018 4:18 pm


Originally Posted by OccasionalFlyerPerson (Post 29266115)
That's a complete non-sequitur from my post. You are talking about people taking luggage down the slide when they should not be. They people taking the luggage are causing the problem; they are in the wrong. It simply isn't other people's responsibility to avoid luggage taken somewhere that it has no right to be, causing potentially life-threatening obstructions.

It's quite simple: if it's an emergency, you GTFO the plane. You don't stop to grab your luggage because you're so self-obsessed and entitled that your 'gizmos' are worth more than other people's lives.



Self-obsession and entitlement. See the post quoted at the top of this post.

How many people died on the Asiana flight referenced above due to passengers removing their luggage? Enough of the hyperbole. :rolleyes:

And not a single person that I've read has advocated for indiscriminately pausing to remove luggage. It's about understanding the situation and reacting appropriately.

ExplorerWannabe Jan 8, 2018 7:17 pm

Yes, people grabbing their carry-ons can create unnecessary delays that could end up killing someone. So could John Mclane-wannabes starting a fistfight in the aisles in order to hurry those people along.
In case of an evacuation, I will get out as expeditiously as I can -- if the situation warrants a few seconds to grab my jacket and meds then I will. Let's face it, if you're back of the plane in a window seat, you probably have plenty of time to reach under the seat and grab something. If you're aisle seat and/or near the emergency exit, you need to get out and clear space for everyone else behind you ASAP.


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