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-   -   Seat kicker — what would you do? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1882075-seat-kicker-what-would-you-do.html)

enviroian Dec 10, 17 4:34 pm

Seat kicker — what would you do?
 
I’m currently sitting on 259 back home. I’m in 25A. This is a great seat with no seat in front of me. Back at the gate the guy behind me started likely kicking my seat back. It was annoying. Fast forward 30 minutes later climbing up to cruise I press the recline back to go halfway back. Dude behind me flips. “”NO MORE — DONT RECLINE I CANT FEEL MY LEGS!” He then started going to town on the chair. I kid you not. I then hit my boiling point. Take off my headphones, turn around and say “dude what the hell is your problem? Sorry I have every right to recline.” He went off on me to the passenger next to him calling me every name in the book. Immediately I lean forward to the flight attendant seated in the jump seat directly in front of me and tell him what’s going on. He agrees it’s totally unacceptable and re-accommodates this man in 16D aisle.

Thoughts? What should I have done differently if anything?

sweetsleep Dec 10, 17 4:37 pm

Glad there was not a flight diversion due to this.
You did the correct thing by getting the FA involved. Sounds like this de escalated the situation to mutual satisfaction

Gino Troian Dec 10, 17 4:57 pm

Recently had a couple sit behind me (I was in bulkhead 1A and they were in 2A/C. Girl kept kicking my seat (I believe her feet were stretched out like you do on the bulkhead) and after the 2nd or 3rd kick I turned around and told her that the padding on the seats are actually very thin and I feel every little movement. She apologized and that was the end of that. No hard feelings and no problems after telling her to stop. If she told me to piss off or similar, I would've just hit the call button and called an FA to intervene. OP did the right thing in not escalating the situation with the a-hole and just going straight to the FA.

DMPHL Dec 10, 17 6:00 pm

Years ago, on a CX flight from JFK-HKG in Y, a little kid, maybe 5 years old, was kicking the back of my brother's seat. Like, kick kick kick kick, constantly. Because he was bored. My brother kindly asked the mom to get her son to stop, and she nodded. But it continued. He asked her again, but it still continued.

Finally, he called the FA over, and said to her, loud enough so the mom could hear, "This kid is out of control and kicking my seat. Do you have, I don't know, a cage you could put him in?"

Allan38103 Dec 10, 17 7:39 pm

Get a lawyer and sue, someone.

FlyerWx Dec 10, 17 7:40 pm

I think what you did was perfectly acceptable. Mr. 26A seemed to be having a bad day, and involving the FA seemed to remedy the situation pretty well.

This may be a pathetic complaint, but I don't get kids who kick the seat in front of them because "they are bored." I was a child not too long ago, and the limited/small IFE (Moving map :)), the window, or a book seemed to suffice in the entertainment department.

volleyca Dec 10, 17 7:54 pm

I have had this happen,, and when I turned and asked they guy to stop he told me that he was too tall and he did not have enough room and so he would not stop. He kicked the whole flight, as we got off the plane a bunch of other pax spoke loudly about how rude this person was. I just assumed Karma will take care of it

State of Trance Dec 10, 17 9:02 pm

To be fair, a lot depends on just exactly how tall 26A was. If their legs were truly jammed up against your seat pre-recline, in my opinion your right to recline ends when it begins to cause physical pain to other passenger. That being said, I highly doubt that was the case if he's having room to kick and you did the right thing by involving the FA who resolved it well.

DCP2016 Dec 10, 17 9:04 pm

I've had kids do this in the past to me (fortunately only on 1-3 hour flights) and I've just lived with it, but I would've said something if it wasn't a kid kicking my seat. Unless you are 6'3+ and your legs are jammed into the back of the seat in front of you there is no excuse for any adults to kick the seat other than once or twice by accident.

ijgordon Dec 10, 17 9:26 pm


Originally Posted by State of Trance (Post 29158606)
To be fair, a lot depends on just exactly how tall 26A was. If their legs were truly jammed up against your seat pre-recline, in my opinion your right to recline ends when it begins to cause physical pain to other passenger. That being said, I highly doubt that was the case if he's having room to kick

You can "kick" a seat with your knee.

klew97 Dec 10, 17 9:42 pm

With seat-kicking kids, suggest that the parents/guardians remove the kid's shoes, might cause enough pain to stop kicking.

SpinOn2 Dec 10, 17 9:46 pm

I'm 6'4 and I can't tell you the last time I flew 2+ hrs when the person in front of me did not put their seat back. It is what it is. Unfortunately it starts the chain as I then have to put back my seat a bit, but I survive. Last week I flew 4hrs LAX-ORD crammed in there pretty good, not ideal but I made it work. Some people just have lesser tolerance I suppose.

OP, I think you handled it pretty well honesty. Sadly that guy was not grown up enough to simply ask you to not put it back, he had to resort to passive aggressive nature.

danbrew Dec 10, 17 10:28 pm

OP handled it well. Surprised the guy behind him didn't get kicked off the plane - he must have been slightly normal when talking to the FA. I was on a cross-country flight not too long ago that had a touch screen LCD panel in the seat back. I very briefly selected the screen to show the flight progress on the monitor. I swear, it was tap, tap, touch, push. The lady in front of me went bananas and started squawking that I was pushing on her seat. I apologized and then rolled my eyes at the guy sitting next to me. His mouth was literally hanging open. Then I just watched a movie on Netflix on my iPad.

Some people are crazy.

enviroian Dec 10, 17 10:38 pm


Originally Posted by danbrew (Post 29158817)
OP handled it well. Surprised the guy behind him didn't get kicked off the plane - he must have been slightly normal when talking to the FA. I was on a cross-country flight not too long ago that had a touch screen LCD panel in the seat back. I very briefly selected the screen to show the flight progress on the monitor. I swear, it was tap, tap, touch, push. The lady in front of me went bananas and started squawking that I was pushing on her seat. I apologized and then rolled my eyes at the guy sitting next to me. His mouth was literally hanging open. Then I just watched a movie on Netflix on my iPad.

Some people are crazy.

he was a normal guy probably mid 30’s. I’d estimate him to be 6’ tall. What is the seat pitch of 26A anyway? Non MCE seat—30”?

If he wanted more legroom he should have purchased a seat with that. I remember hearing him tell the poor guy next to him “well if I had a seat like that I wouldn’t be complaining!”

your lack of planning is not my concern. Sorry.

rjw242 Dec 10, 17 10:44 pm


Originally Posted by DCP2016 (Post 29158611)
Unless you are 6'3+ and your legs are jammed into the back of the seat in front of you ...

I'm about that tall, have flown countless miles in economy, and generally I can find a way to make myself comfortable.
  • If I sit upright with my legs a bit apart, my knees won't butt up against the seat in front of me (even if it's reclined).
  • If I tuck my feet under the seat in front of me, I'm actually quite comfortable. Or,
  • if I slouch a bit and jut my legs straight out, they'll jam into the seatback, so when that person reclines I can holler OH GOD WHY ARE YOU RECLINING I CAN'T FEEL MY LEGS YOU MONSTER!!!...
Sounds like the OP's buddy chose the last option. Point being even tall people can take responsibility for their own comfort, or not.

FlyingNone Dec 10, 17 11:04 pm


Originally Posted by DMPHL (Post 29158124)
Years ago, on a CX flight from JFK-HKG in Y, a little kid, maybe 5 years old, was kicking the back of my brother's seat. Like, kick kick kick kick, constantly. Because he was bored. My brother kindly asked the mom to get her son to stop, and she nodded. But it continued. He asked her again, but it still continued.

Finally, he called the FA over, and said to her, loud enough so the mom could hear, "This kid is out of control and kicking my seat. Do you have, I don't know, a cage you could put him in?"

--------
I especially love it when parents completely tune out and ignore the situation. They never seem to be able to see anything straight on or peripherally. I guess being a parent grants some the right to space out, ignore, take a "trip" somewhere else while their kid is annoying others. Don't they hear the noise, bouncing, tapping, thumping that the kid is doing ????

State of Trance Dec 10, 17 11:28 pm


Originally Posted by enviroian (Post 29158833)
he was a normal guy probably mid 30’s. I’d estimate him to be 6’ tall. What is the seat pitch of 26A anyway? Non MCE seat—30”?

If he wanted more legroom he should have purchased a seat with that. I remember hearing him tell the poor guy next to him “well if I had a seat like that I wouldn’t be complaining!”

your lack of planning is not my concern. Sorry.

According to Seatguru, it's 31-32". No excuse for someone only 6'. I'm about his height with a shorter torso and longer legs and the only time I've actually had an issue was on LCCs like AirAsia that offer 29". Sounds like he was just out looking for a fight.

Daze Dec 11, 17 12:39 am

If a child is kicking my seat, I assume the parents have already failed to teach manners/personal space and I simply become the face that appears over the seat saying to the child, "don't kick the seat anymore". That has been effective on several occasions. If this child has gotten older, agree that getting the flight attendant involved is the way to go. Daze

danieltran Dec 11, 17 12:51 am

You have spend your maximum effort to control yourself that much. You've done nothing wrong. I cannot endure it like you. When i met someone who is kickbacker, i set limit for the levels, like if he kicked 3 times, i hit my elbow to the seat to alert him, if he's still kicking for another 3 times, i will talk to him, for another 3 i call the attendant. The important thing is don't feel guilty for what you have done right or you will get hot very fast next time you encounter someone like him

AANYC1981 Dec 11, 17 3:31 am

Mr 26A is going to really love the new 737 Max and AA's plans for densification across other planes lol.

SCEflyer Dec 11, 17 5:58 am


Originally Posted by enviroian (Post 29157836)
I’m currently sitting on 259 back home. I’m in 25A. This is a great seat with no seat in front of me. Back at the gate the guy behind me started likely kicking my seat back. It was annoying. Fast forward 30 minutes later climbing up to cruise I press the recline back to go halfway back. Dude behind me flips. “”NO MORE — DONT RECLINE I CANT FEEL MY LEGS!” He then started going to town on the chair. I kid you not. I then hit my boiling point. Take off my headphones, turn around and say “dude what the hell is your problem? Sorry I have every right to recline.” He went off on me to the passenger next to him calling me every name in the book. Immediately I lean forward to the flight attendant seated in the jump seat directly in front of me and tell him what’s going on. He agrees it’s totally unacceptable and re-accommodates this man in 16D aisle.

Thoughts? What should I have done differently if anything?

Just because you can doesn't mean you should!

Surface Interval Dec 11, 17 6:03 am


Originally Posted by SCEflyer (Post 29159650)
Just because you can doesn't mean you should!

I take the polite way and turn around and ask the person behind me if it is ok that I recline. Only once has somebody asked that I do not - so I did not, they were working on their laptop. A bit of courtesy goes a long way.

enviroian Dec 11, 17 8:54 am


Originally Posted by State of Trance (Post 29158933)
According to Seatguru, it's 31-32". No excuse for someone only 6'. I'm about his height with a shorter torso and longer legs and the only time I've actually had an issue was on LCCs like AirAsia that offer 29". Sounds like he was just out looking for a fight.

This was a 320B refurb with the new slimline seats. The appeared to almost swivel recline rather than traditional recline (like the 738's).

The dude kept on staring at my when he moved up to 16D. It was rather odd. Needless to say my senses were heightened when I left he jetway but he wasn't there.

All in all it was a very peculiar day. Before I boarded the flight I went to the bathroom in the terminal. Next to me a guy next was hurling like crazy. Then this nutjob and when I left the plane in DFW and went to the bathroom a second time someone else was hurling like crazy. To top it opp, when I got on the DART train platform some dude came up to me and said "hey can you help me?I"m drunk and i need to get to IHOP". Not wanting to know really anything more about his predicament, i said "No, sorry pal" and boarded. Sure enough he did too and passed out swiftly within 5 minutes.

ri_us Dec 11, 17 9:04 am

Kids are controllable to a point - parents job
 

Originally Posted by FlyerWx (Post 29158384)
I think what you did was perfectly acceptable. Mr. 26A seemed to be having a bad day, and involving the FA seemed to remedy the situation pretty well.

This may be a pathetic complaint, but I don't get kids who kick the seat in front of them because "they are bored." I was a child not too long ago, and the limited/small IFE (Moving map :)), the window, or a book seemed to suffice in the entertainment department.

We've been flying on long haul flights with our son since he was 4. He has ADHD. We have come up with 5 strategies to keep him occupied during the longest flights. Every once in a while he used to push the touch screen in the seat back too hard or inadvertently kick the seat in front of him. We quickly (and loudly) admonished him, explained them impact on the person in front of him and required that he apologize to the person in front of him. That both dissuaded him from doing it and inspired understanding from the person in front.

In short, my view is that we parents own this behavior or we don't fly.

longtimereader firstimeposter Dec 11, 17 9:13 am

6’3 here and unfortunately if I’m not in MCE or upgradesd you reclining your seat is going to be going into me knees. Every time I move you will feel my knees “kicking” at your back seat and being so uncomfortable, I will have to move a lot. Your 2 inches of minimal reclining comfort will be negated by my constant knee jabs.

Sorry, but reclining is a jerk move. You have unlimited leg room, and also want to recline into the poor guy in a non-MCE seat. Not cool.

enviroian Dec 11, 17 9:18 am


Originally Posted by longtimereader firstimeposter (Post 29160219)
6’3 here and unfortunately if I’m not in MCE or upgradesd you reclining your seat is going to be going into me knees. Every time I move you will feel my knees “kicking” at your back seat and being so uncomfortable, I will have to move a lot. Your 2 inches of minimal reclining comfort will be negated by my constant knee jabs.

Sorry, but reclining is a jerk move. You have unlimited leg room, and also want to recline into the poor guy in a non-MCE seat. Not cool.

I respectfully disagree. My seat was available for him to choose and/or purchase up to one hour before the flight left (I was in a bulkhead before but 25A opened up and I snatched it) so he could have had that seat. It's not my problem he didn't have leg room. He could have purchased MCE or F. His choice. Sorry.

QueenOfCoach Dec 11, 17 9:23 am

It's the good old "Do I have the right to fully recline my seat no matter who or what is behind me?" discussion.

If you ever sense another passenger is getting aggressive, best to refer the situation to a FA for resolution.

longtimereader firstimeposter Dec 11, 17 10:06 am


Originally Posted by enviroian (Post 29160242)
I respectfully disagree. My seat was available for him to choose and/or purchase up to one hour before the flight left (I was in a bulkhead before but 25A opened up and I snatched it) so he could have had that seat. It's not my problem he didn't have leg room. He could have purchased MCE or F. His choice. Sorry.

you also have to be okay with my knees “kicking” your backseat. If you don’t want that, you can buy first, MCE or don’t recline.

Majority of people on your airplane fly once or twice a year, they don’t understand the nuances of seat selection, seat guru or where they are going to end up. Show a little compassion and stop reclining when the seat behind you is non-MCE or you’re not in F.

rjw242 Dec 11, 17 10:18 am


Originally Posted by longtimereader firstimeposter (Post 29160427)
you also have to be okay with my knees “kicking” your backseat. If you don’t want that, you can buy first, MCE or don’t recline.

as I noted above, your knees are only "kicking" the seat if you're deliberately making them do so.

rjque Dec 11, 17 10:24 am


Originally Posted by enviroian (Post 29160130)
To top it opp, when I got on the DART train platform some dude came up to me and said "hey can you help me?I"m drunk and i need to get to IHOP". Not wanting to know really anything more about his predicament, i said "No, sorry pal" and boarded. Sure enough he did too and passed out swiftly within 5 minutes.

"I'm drunk and I need to get to IHOP."

I think we've all been there before.

longtimereader firstimeposter Dec 11, 17 10:30 am


Originally Posted by rjw242 (Post 29160474)
as I noted above, your knees are only "kicking" the seat if you're deliberately making them do so.

I’m assuming you are short. If I’m in a coach seat and someone reclines their seat my knees are now pressed up against the seat. If I move my legs at all, which is bound to happen since I’m cramped, I will be moving your seat. Sure, moving to get comfortable is deliberate.

Let me guess, you also put both bags in the overhead and fight with the person in the middle over the armrest? They are both there for you to use, right?

rjw242 Dec 11, 17 10:34 am


Originally Posted by longtimereader firstimeposter (Post 29160526)
I’m assuming you are short.

then you didn't actually read the post I was referring to.

Your comfort is your choice. If you want to deliberately make yourself uncomfortable and wallow in aggreived self-pity, that's your prerogative, but don't expect the rest of us to play along.

SpinOn2 Dec 11, 17 10:54 am


Originally Posted by longtimereader firstimeposter (Post 29160526)


I’m assuming you are short. If I’m in a coach seat and someone reclines their seat my knees are now pressed up against the seat. If I move my legs at all, which is bound to happen since I’m cramped, I will be moving your seat. Sure, moving to get comfortable is deliberate.

Let me guess, you also put both bags in the overhead and fight with the person in the middle over the armrest? They are both there for you to use, right?





​​​​​​I'm not buying that, I am 6'4 and it's not that tough to make myself reasonably comfortable, even if the person fully reclines their seat. I have to at least partially recline my own, but otherwise it's not an issue. There is a difference between occasional moves to get comfortable again vs. intentional moving to purposefully stick it to the person in front of you.

I will say I don't necessarily agree with the "Should have bought a better seat" narrative though. Case in point, I was flying OGG-LAX, my flight left very late and instead of then connecting LAX-DFW in a bulkhead PE seat I was able to choose ahead of time, I was rerouted LAX-ORD in an A321 in the back in the window for 4 hours because that's the best seat that was left. You never know the case of the person as to why they have that seat.

JY1024 Dec 11, 17 11:03 am

As this is not an AA-specific topic, let's move this over to TravelBuzz for further discussion. Thanks.

/JY1024, AAdvantage and TravelBuzz co-moderator

kb9522 Dec 11, 17 11:17 am


Originally Posted by State of Trance (Post 29158606)
To be fair, a lot depends on just exactly how tall 26A was. If their legs were truly jammed up against your seat pre-recline, in my opinion your right to recline ends when it begins to cause physical pain to other passenger. That being said, I highly doubt that was the case if he's having room to kick and you did the right thing by involving the FA who resolved it well.

Absolutely not. Seat pitch is very easy to look up. If you choose to fly in a seat that you know will be uncomfortable, that is your own fault.


Originally Posted by ri_us (Post 29160178)
We've been flying on long haul flights with our son since he was 4. He has ADHD. We have come up with 5 strategies to keep him occupied during the longest flights. Every once in a while he used to push the touch screen in the seat back too hard or inadvertently kick the seat in front of him. We quickly (and loudly) admonished him, explained them impact on the person in front of him and required that he apologize to the person in front of him. That both dissuaded him from doing it and inspired understanding from the person in front.

In short, my view is that we parents own this behavior or we don't fly.

It's rare to see parents who actually take responsibility for, well, their responsibility. Thanks for being one of the good guys.


Originally Posted by longtimereader firstimeposter (Post 29160219)
6’3 here and unfortunately if I’m not in MCE or upgradesd you reclining your seat is going to be going into me knees. Every time I move you will feel my knees “kicking” at your back seat and being so uncomfortable, I will have to move a lot. Your 2 inches of minimal reclining comfort will be negated by my constant knee jabs.

Sorry, but reclining is a jerk move. You have unlimited leg room, and also want to recline into the poor guy in a non-MCE seat. Not cool.

That "poor guy" in a non-MCE seat made a choice to be in that seat. Nobody should feel sorry for that person.


Originally Posted by longtimereader firstimeposter (Post 29160526)


I’m assuming you are short. If I’m in a coach seat and someone reclines their seat my knees are now pressed up against the seat. If I move my legs at all, which is bound to happen since I’m cramped, I will be moving your seat. Sure, moving to get comfortable is deliberate.

Let me guess, you also put both bags in the overhead and fight with the person in the middle over the armrest? They are both there for you to use, right?


We're talking about malicious intent here. That seems to be clear to everyone but you.

As for the overhead bins, the instructions are clear: personal item under the seat and larger carry on in the bin. There is no instruction governing seat recline usage, outside of upright for critical phases. Same for the armrest, though most opt to give the middle seat both of them. Again though, the person in the middle seat chose to be in that seat... he could just as easily have paid for a different one.


Originally Posted by longtimereader firstimeposter (Post 29160427)


you also have to be okay with my knees “kicking” your backseat. If you don’t want that, you can buy first, MCE or don’t recline.

Majority of people on your airplane fly once or twice a year, they don’t understand the nuances of seat selection, seat guru or where they are going to end up. Show a little compassion and stop reclining when the seat behind you is non-MCE or you’re not in F.

The nuances of seat selection? It's not some obscure art form... Why didn't the person who is inconvenienced by reclining buy a seat in F if space was so important to them? :rolleyes:

coloneltigh Dec 11, 17 11:18 am


Originally Posted by enviroian (Post 29160130)
This was a 320B refurb with the new slimline seats. The appeared to almost swivel recline rather than traditional recline (like the 738's).

The dude kept on staring at my when he moved up to 16D. It was rather odd. Needless to say my senses were heightened when I left he jetway but he wasn't there.

All in all it was a very peculiar day. Before I boarded the flight I went to the bathroom in the terminal. Next to me a guy next was hurling like crazy. Then this nutjob and when I left the plane in DFW and went to the bathroom a second time someone else was hurling like crazy. To top it opp, when I got on the DART train platform some dude came up to me and said "hey can you help me?I"m drunk and i need to get to IHOP". Not wanting to know really anything more about his predicament, i said "No, sorry pal" and boarded. Sure enough he did too and passed out swiftly within 5 minutes.

Sounds like you need to start packing some headbags and Ivory soap in a long tube sock.

cynicAAl Dec 11, 17 12:34 pm


Originally Posted by longtimereader firstimeposter (Post 29160526)
If I’m in a coach seat and someone reclines their seat my knees are now pressed up against the seat. If I move my legs at all, which is bound to happen since I’m cramped, I will be moving your seat. Sure, moving to get comfortable is deliberate.

Knock yourself out with that. I actually like knees in my lumbar for support. I just pretend I'm in a Qantas business class seat with the in-seat massage function turned on.


Originally Posted by longtimereader firstimeposter (Post 29160219)
6’3 here and unfortunately if I’m not in MCE or upgradesd you reclining your seat is going to be going into me knees. Every time I move you will feel my knees “kicking” at your back seat and being so uncomfortable, I will have to move a lot. Your 2 inches of minimal reclining comfort will be negated by my constant knee jabs.

Sorry, but reclining is a jerk move. You have unlimited leg room, and also want to recline into the poor guy in a non-MCE seat. Not cool.

Seats recline. If that bothers you, you should limit your travel to Spirit or Allegiant Airlines.

KDS777 Dec 11, 17 1:36 pm

Never had a seat kicker in my life.

nlkm9 Dec 11, 17 2:06 pm


Originally Posted by enviroian (Post 29157836)
I’m currently sitting on 259 back home. I’m in 25A. This is a great seat with no seat in front of me. Back at the gate the guy behind me started likely kicking my seat back. It was annoying. Fast forward 30 minutes later climbing up to cruise I press the recline back to go halfway back. Dude behind me flips. “”NO MORE — DONT RECLINE I CANT FEEL MY LEGS!” He then started going to town on the chair. I kid you not. I then hit my boiling point. Take off my headphones, turn around and say “dude what the hell is your problem? Sorry I have every right to recline.” He went off on me to the passenger next to him calling me every name in the book. Immediately I lean forward to the flight attendant seated in the jump seat directly in front of me and tell him what’s going on. He agrees it’s totally unacceptable and re-accommodates this man in 16D aisle.

Thoughts? What should I have done differently if anything?

I think you handled it perfectly. i wonder what would happen if he could not be reacoomodated - he sounds like a jerk!

enviroian Dec 11, 17 2:14 pm


Originally Posted by nlkm9 (Post 29161453)
I think you handled it perfectly. i wonder what would happen if he could not be reacoomodated - he sounds like a jerk!

The guy next to him offered to switch places with him but before he could decide the FA offered him another seat. Of course everyone looked at me like I was the arse of the plane, not the other guy. I just re-donned my headphones and continued my munching of my chex mix.


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