Asked to move to keep the plane's weight balanced??
 

Recently I was asked to move from the second seat in the front to the back of an Air Canada CRJ plane flying from YYZ to RDU in order to balance the plane's weight according to the FA. The plane was almost completely full. I am 6 feet, 185 lbs. This sounds crazy to me?? Am I wrong or did the FA have a case?

I've seen people moved for weight and balance issues at least half a dozen times over the years on other carriers. I imagine others here can provide a technical explanation.

Every passenger weighs the same where weight and balance calculations are concerned, so your size and weight were irrelevant. Sometimes passengers have to be moved to bring the plane into its takeoff envelope. You can move back after takeoff.

What is the takeoff window?
 

Just curious. Have never heard that term though I'm aware if pax being moved for takeoff.

Weight and balance re-seating happens all the time on small planes. This was not unusual, although they often ask for volunteers first before just selecting someone.

Every flight has its W&B calculated (and double-checked by a dispatcher). That is one of the reasons why flights close well prior to departure.

While it is more prevalent on smaller aircraft, I have seen passengers moved from front to rear on larger aircraft as well.

As noted, it is generally --- although not always --- necessary on departure. Once the seatbelt sign is off, ask the FA if she can obtain permission to move back (or ask at the time you are moved).

W&B matters on larger aircraft, too. On those, however, they can usually just move cargo.

Getting the W&B wrong can be catastrophic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...nes_Flight_102

I remember a few years ago that HA came under fire for announcing a new policy of weighing passengers at checkin! However in that case, I believe it was due to the "average assumed weight" per passenger was not representative of actual weight which led to increased fuel consumption.

Edit: I forgot to mention that this was on 767s no less.

Happens all the time on CRJs. They usually ask for volunteers, though.

Never saw it happen on any jet, even a CRJ. But I was asked once on a USAir Dash8. I'm definitely a big guy though, so while I wasn't expecting it, I wasn't surprised.

Not even "a few years ago", that was 2016!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7375426.html

Oh gosh, my mistake! I didn't realize it was so recently. My sense of time has been so skewed :D

While waiting to leave our gate observed this: http://abc7chicago.com/news/none-hur...hare-/1936543/
Multiple ambulances and fire engines came to the "rescue".

A plane tipping at the gate is very different from during takeoff, mostly because one doesn't have a habit of killing many passengers.

And, yes, it can be a matter of shifting just a couple people around. The acceptable window for the center of gravity can be pretty narrow so moving just a passenger or two can make a difference,, especially on smaller planes.

This incident was not due getting the W&B wrong it was due to cargo being unsecured and moving thus causing a catastrophic W&B issue.

That said I have been several different planes with W&B issues that were solved by either moving or removing PAX.

a long time ago, we were flying out of BVI on a small, 4 engine plane that i cannot find. loading was from the rear. the plane was a little over half full. everyone sat in the rear. the tail went down. the pilot came out, and rearranged the passengers. the pilot was the president of the airline. the tail came off the ground, and we flew to soju with no incidents.

Prop or jet? Jet is likely the Avro/BAe146, the smallest quad engine I can think of though that boards from the front. Rear boarding is common on the ATR props but those are twin engine, not quads.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Aerospace_146
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATR_42

plane had 4 Lycoming engines.

CRJ-200's are probably the worst when it comes to W&B issues. They are almost always nose heavy, so the answer is to move people to the back. Cargo helps too, but when people don't have enough checked or valet bags there has to either be weight added to the cargo or sometimes it's easier and quicker to ask for someone from the front to go to the back. Fuel loading plays a factor as well. The higher the fuel load the CG will move aft as well. But on short flights they won't carry as much fuel.

I've been moved back to front once--**very** light load and they misloaded our cargo. They moved us all up into the premium seats and headed out--but turned back before takeoff because the numbers said it wasn't enough. They loaded a weight into the cargo bay and off we flew. Typical 6-across plane, I forget what type.

The CRJ and E145 have only one cargo compartment and it is in the tail. This doesn't give any of the loading flexibility that is available on airplanes with both forward and aft under-floor cargo bins. All cargo, checked, and carry-on bags must go in the aft cargo compartment leaving nothing left to adjust but the passenger's seating.

The only 6-across plane with tail-mounted engines I can think of is the 727. (It must have been tail-mounted because that's the only time a very light load requires moving everyone up front as a 737 or like would be front-heavy if everyone sat up front)

That happened to me one time as well on an AA MD-80... very light load and they moved everyone up front.

Years ago flew San Juan to St. Croix on Prinair, a Puerto Rican airline. They used to fly all over the Caribbean. They flew the 4 engine piston/prop de Havilland DH.114 Heron. Acording to wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Heron some had Lycoming engines. The Heron was known for sitting on its tail if too many pax sat in the back rows. :eek:

No, the problem was they put the cargo in wrong and they were trying to compensate without taking everything out and starting over.

I was once on an EMB120 that had only 4 passengers. We all had to move to the back for takeoff, but we were allowed to sit wherever we wanted when we were airborne.

I once read a baby jet tech sheet IIRC on the CRJ regarding weight and balance. I was surprised that high tech jets use a low tech method. If the balance needs to be shifted, the ground crews stock sand bags which are added to the cargo bin as needed to balance the plane.

Yes, ballast. That is sometimes needed on the CRJ or ERJ when the cabin is full (can't move passengers) but the airplane is still too nose-heavy. No other option other than removing passengers.

Having only a single cargo compartment limits your flexibility.

Was about to say/post I thought the 747 linked was an issue with major cargo shifting rearward during take off.

Every zone of the aircraft needs to have a certain minimum weight in order for the aircraft to have the proper center of gravity for take-off. Just before the main cabin door is closed, the final W&B calculations are made, and if there is not enough weight in each zone, people/cargo are moved around until each zone is within the proper weight range.

More specifically, the CRJ-100/200 only have an aft cargo compartment. The CRJ-700/900/1000 have a forward underfloor cargo compartment. It isn't big by any stretch, but can accommodate smaller roller bags.

What other method would you expect to add weight when there are no more people or cargo to add? :confused:

That would explain why I've been moved a few times. Most of the flights out of my regional airport use the CRJ-200. I don't mind because that usually means the flight is fairly emptyl. I actually get some room to spread out, well as much room as one can get on a CRJ-200.