darthbimmer

I've been close to the planning of numerous smaller conferences (50-200 attendees) at three small employers, and we've looked at it the same way. Staying at a recognized luxury brand for a conference has poor optics. The BOD tends to frown on it for internal events, and clients warn us it could be hard for them to justify for attending customer events.

That covers the "MCE" part of "MICE". The "I", Incentive travel, is a bit different. There it's recognized that the purpose of incentive travel is to motivate & reward high performers. In many industries you need to pick better than a 3.5 star hotel for that.

Kagehitokiri

many would be surprised what kind of buyouts there are too
including when buyout organizer 'resells' all rooms to individuals

super low costs in asia, much higher costs in most of EU/US

re points - selling points especially to credit card companies

cisco may be a regular at FS hualalai

florida luxury hotels love renting pools

some luxury hotels will rent all/most of common areas, annoying for guests

emma69

In parts of North America, a 500 room hotel would be astronomically large - to the point where there are hundreds of cities that don't have a single hotel that big. You can't really talk about North America as a place, because there is a huge difference between e.g. Regina and Orlando or Quebec City and Cancun, or between New York and Charlottetown.

Four years ago I was at a conference, for which the hotel was a Mandarin Oriental and two years ago where it was a Four Seasons. So you can't say none of them do. It very much depends on the conference or event - you can't aim to get together e.g. CEOs of successful companies if you host at a Holiday Inn - people who pay for luxury hotels for their leisure rarely want to take a step down for their business-related travel.

Kagehitokiri

not to mention private vs public, and foreign coming to US

for things like UN in NYC, others in GVA, etc many hotels do MICE

then things like G7/8, either many hotels or one (not big nonluxury)

pinniped

The hotel-within-a-hotel concept can serve all needs. This is what Vegas is doing: massive amounts of convention space and the massive 4-star brands that we all know, but also with a 5-star component within or near the main convention hotels.

ARIA, Wynn, and MGM have all done this. Plus you have MO in there amidst the big boys as well...

Vince Chan

I know of course most Four Seasons or Mandarin do have a certain area for wedding or business convention, but it's usually very small, so I would assuming that A.the size of meeting area from most of real luxury chain could not hold a " MICE" event. B. a MICE event is usually holding in a mid size or large size meeting room , so a smaller luxury hotel could not hold a MICE event.

Then do you guys consider the following properties which usually hold a MiCE event or business convention but still have a good reputation for catering leisure guests, as a business but ALSO luxurious hotel ?

1. Grand Hyatt Hong Kong/Taipei( popular choice for both lesiure and business)

2. JW Marriott Hanoi( looks like a convention hotel, but providing super luxurious standard room. Its french restaurant is also the very top in town. The architecture is amazing)

3. Conrad Hong Kong

Vince Chan

Thanks for all the reply, it's been very helpful, rarely see so much discuss without any pointless sarcastic.


A room numbers under 100 is almost impossible as long as it's a chain hotel, even the most luxurious brand.

Do you agree that a luxury hotel must have mid size or small size room numbers? Is this one of the key component of a luxury hotel?

But this assumption is based on the stereo type that A. The lesser the room numbers, the more the staff can help their guest, the better the accommodation experience.

However, it really depends on the brand and their ability, right?

For example if it is operated by world famous group such as Hilton or SPG, they might have the better ability to accommodate many guests while still providing a nice atmosphere. If it's operated by some casino company, it might provide disaster experience, such as MGM and every 4~5 star casino hotel in Vegas.

For example, JW Marriott Marquis Dubai has 1600 rooms in two towers,800 rooms per tower. But I have read most positive even great reviews about the hotel, how they describe the experience is actually "intimate and quite", because their is only 12~14 rooms per floor!

At this case , the 1600 rooms JW Marriott Dubai might provide a better experience than a 500 rooms, 10 floors, 50 rooms per floor luxurious hotel? Maybe a Grand Hyatt or Four Seasons brand.

Is it possible that a hotel holds large numbers of bed figures but still a luxury hotel?

My experience at Vegas is not good. BTW I stay at Wynn Tower suites.But I would say a hotel without casino could provide better service.


Have you guys stay at any hotel that can hold a mid~large scale MICE event , but you still consider it as a luxurious experience and overall in the same tier with smaller itimate luxurious hotel? Any?

Most regular Hilton or Marriott in domestic USA that caters to convention is disaster if you look for an upscale or luxurious and leisure type experience, for me.

Vince Chan

But the convention you attend at Four Seasons must be small and exquisite type, right?

It can't be that kind of hilton convention you see from the movie " up in the air" at the Mandarin or Four Seasons.

I can't believe that Wikipedia defines Sheraton as a "Luxury" brand . That probably be the biggest joke in this industry.

emma69

There are plenty of luxury hotels that cater for large meetings and events. Since you seem to be familiar with Hong Kong, let's take that as an example.

The Mandarin Oriental Hong Kong has 500 rooms. It has 15 separate function rooms that between them can hold 1350 'classroom style' for seminars and meetings (or 1730 people for reception style events). Since this is a brand you hold up as being a luxury property, tell me - is that too many rooms for a luxury hotel? Does having that much meeting space mean that it cannot be a luxury property any more?

Moreover, many luxury hotels are located adjacent to non-hotel meeting spaces (e.g. convention centres) so can accommodate the guest, and use the meeting spaces outside of the hotel for part of the event (e.g. Mandarin Oriental Boston is right beside the convention centre, they have meeting rooms in the hotel, but the event could well be held in conjunction with meeting spaces next door).

pinniped

The industry's own terminology around their brands is kind of silly. There's a list somewhere on FT - I think in one of the Starwood/Marriott "which brands survive?" threads - with a list of 100+ brands and how the industry officially categorizes them.

JW, Grand Hyatt, and Conrad are in somewhat of a fortunate position in that they generally aren't seen as taboo for business/convention travel. I've stayed in all three on regular business travels and it hasn't raised an eyebrow. Of course, I did so because the rates were in line with what my client or firm was used to, but even if the Four Seasons was $99/nt, I would have avoided the brand just because of the optics.

Of course, JW, GH, and Conrad aren't in that top-top luxury category with FS and MO.

darthbimmer

Two aspects of high end luxury are personalized service and exclusivity. It is hard to deliver personalized service when there are many hundreds of guests at a time. Just scaling up the number of staff does not address it, as at large scale operations shift into assembly line style work so they don't crumble into confusion under their own size.

Large scale also impairs the subjective notion of exclusivity. How exclusive does it feel if there are hundreds of guests tramping around? Plus, how much true luxury demand is in one market, anyway? Big hotels have incentive to offer lower prices (and thus provide lower service) to fill empty rooms. By necessity they often pursue an upper-midscale clientele as well as luxury, because there just aren't enough luxury minded visitors to fill all those rooms. This then alienates some of the luxury customers, who'll look elsewhere for a true luxury experience.

pinniped

If it's a BIG property, then they'd better have a good way of making it not feel like such a big property.

La Quinta Resort (W=A) does a pretty good job of this. Smaller pods of villas around semi-private pools give the place a bit of a more personal feel, even though total bed count is pretty high.

Hard to keep the luxury vibe in a high-rise tower that has *too* many rooms. If it gets too big, then a hotel-within-a-hotel or some other unique feature might be needed.

Kagehitokiri

there are luxury hotels in same building as nonluxury hotels

luxury hotel developers usually doing residences / office
for example La Quinta has tons of residences (single family homes)

luxury hotels avoid giant, otherwise negative impact on price/brand integrity
casinos do not sell most of their rooms, they give the rooms to gamblers

luxury hotels more often get heads of state and individuals booking floor(s) / entire hotel

incorrect

but yes big box have better margins