What was airline travel in the 80's like?
Sep 26, 2016, 2:27 am
#122
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,031
Sorry moondog, that was Eastern's territory:
http://airwaysnews.com/galleries/6853.jpg
http://www.virtualeastern.com/images/routemap3-2-87.jpg
http://airwaysnews.com/galleries/6853.jpg
http://www.virtualeastern.com/images/routemap3-2-87.jpg
Sep 26, 2016, 2:54 am
#123
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,141
Don't know. It has been a long time, but my memory is that EWR was well-served by Eastern. Might be a problematic memory.
Sep 26, 2016, 5:59 am
#124
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,438
Sorry moondog, that was Eastern's territory:
http://airwaysnews.com/galleries/6853.jpg
http://www.virtualeastern.com/images/routemap3-2-87.jpg
http://airwaysnews.com/galleries/6853.jpg
http://www.virtualeastern.com/images/routemap3-2-87.jpg
Sep 27, 2016, 7:19 am
#125
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7
I have been flying to San Francisco and back since I was a baby in the 60s. I recall my mother having to purchase a last minute fare (perhaps in the early 70s or very late 60s and being staggered that the fare was over $1000 - it was just such a huge amount of money.
In terms of what it was like, I recall well the Pan Am 707s which had to stop at Winnipeg for more fuel westbound but could make it the whole way Eastbound. I recall the open hat racks, which subsequently got filled up by black and white televisions which were for the IFE- barely visible. I recall, in Economy of course, being served smoked salmon, which was a real luxury in those days.
But, I also recall one of my last flights with Pan Am where the food was the worst I've ever experienced on an airline (which IIRC was not too surprising as Pan Am had been going downhill consistently for many years). But the FAs were always really nice.
How does it compare to today? It's almost impossible to say as memories play tricks over such a long period, and points of reference change. I think the seats were more comfortable then in economy, with softer cushions and more space. The FAs were always really friendly whereas, at least on US carriers, they are downright hostile then. But my recollection of the airport experience is not favourable. I remember huge queues to check in at SFO in the old international terminal, perhaps 50 feet deep, with no snake system of queuing. I remember queues for the old, half-baked security, again at SFO,. I remember Customs liked to open every suitcase - this persisted in the USA for years after other countries had abandoned it but I seem to recall Immigration was quite quick. LHR was very different, as you checked in at a bus station in Victoria and got a coach to the airport, which always seemed very civilised.
So it's certainly got massively cheaper. I'm not convinced it's less comfortable, the IFE has improved enormously. The food is probably on a par, the service has deteriorated enormously and the airport experience has improved, apart from US Immigration.
In terms of what it was like, I recall well the Pan Am 707s which had to stop at Winnipeg for more fuel westbound but could make it the whole way Eastbound. I recall the open hat racks, which subsequently got filled up by black and white televisions which were for the IFE- barely visible. I recall, in Economy of course, being served smoked salmon, which was a real luxury in those days.
But, I also recall one of my last flights with Pan Am where the food was the worst I've ever experienced on an airline (which IIRC was not too surprising as Pan Am had been going downhill consistently for many years). But the FAs were always really nice.
How does it compare to today? It's almost impossible to say as memories play tricks over such a long period, and points of reference change. I think the seats were more comfortable then in economy, with softer cushions and more space. The FAs were always really friendly whereas, at least on US carriers, they are downright hostile then. But my recollection of the airport experience is not favourable. I remember huge queues to check in at SFO in the old international terminal, perhaps 50 feet deep, with no snake system of queuing. I remember queues for the old, half-baked security, again at SFO,. I remember Customs liked to open every suitcase - this persisted in the USA for years after other countries had abandoned it but I seem to recall Immigration was quite quick. LHR was very different, as you checked in at a bus station in Victoria and got a coach to the airport, which always seemed very civilised.
So it's certainly got massively cheaper. I'm not convinced it's less comfortable, the IFE has improved enormously. The food is probably on a par, the service has deteriorated enormously and the airport experience has improved, apart from US Immigration.
Sep 27, 2016, 7:26 am
#126
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7
U.S. Immigration processing has actually gotten a lot better since the 1980s. The Global Entry (GOES) system for U.S. Citizens is great. I get though New York JFK Airport in less than five minutes. There is also a new electronic clearance system for people not in the GOES system, which has really made getting through the immigration process must faster.
As for London Heathrow (LHR), the system has not improved. A couple years ago, it took me an hour and 50 minutes to get through immigration at Terminal 4 (at 0800), and this month they beat their lousy record, when it took me two hours to get through immigration at Terminal 3 (also at 0800). LHR is probably one of the worst in the World.
As for London Heathrow (LHR), the system has not improved. A couple years ago, it took me an hour and 50 minutes to get through immigration at Terminal 4 (at 0800), and this month they beat their lousy record, when it took me two hours to get through immigration at Terminal 3 (also at 0800). LHR is probably one of the worst in the World.
Sep 27, 2016, 7:36 am
#127
Join Date: Jul 2015
Programs: UA Plat
Posts: 154
Back on thread: in the early 80s, there were several airlines offering a LGA-BOS shuttle. I had booked on one (perhaps Eastern) but mistakenly checked in and boarded another (perhaps AA), and they graciously honored my ticket and let me on the competitor airline's plane. That was kind, and not possible in today's security climate.
Sep 27, 2016, 7:41 am
#128
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oceanside, CA
Programs: LT AAdvantage Gold
Posts: 539
I flew nearly every week for the first half of the 80's. Security was different from now - sometimes they had scanners at the gate, depending on the airline. There was food in coach, and even special meals. Seats were not quite so cramped in the back of the plane, and not so luxurious in the front of the plane.
I flew mostly to the east coast out of DFW. A lot of the time I went to Richmond, which meant a) flying Piedmont and b) connecting in Charlotte. Neither was fun.
The most fun was when President Reagan fired the air traffic controllers after they went on strike. Sometimes you would be number 50 waiting for takeoff.
Here's a real shocker - I worked for AA in the summers when I was in college in the late 60's. We considered a 50% load factor to be good. One summer, nearly all the other airlines went on strike - AA had a different pilots union - and our baggage system simply collapsed as load factors neared 100%. They couldn't scale it up fast enough.
I flew mostly to the east coast out of DFW. A lot of the time I went to Richmond, which meant a) flying Piedmont and b) connecting in Charlotte. Neither was fun.
The most fun was when President Reagan fired the air traffic controllers after they went on strike. Sometimes you would be number 50 waiting for takeoff.
Here's a real shocker - I worked for AA in the summers when I was in college in the late 60's. We considered a 50% load factor to be good. One summer, nearly all the other airlines went on strike - AA had a different pilots union - and our baggage system simply collapsed as load factors neared 100%. They couldn't scale it up fast enough.
Sep 27, 2016, 9:28 am
#130
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CLE
Programs: UA Platinum, Starbucks Gold, PF Chang's Warrior, Wine Century 100
Posts: 1,105
I remember quite often having an empty middle seat in coach on flights to the west coast from ORD. Sometimes a whole row to myself. Very few leisure travelers on the long hauls considering tickets cost several hundred dollars.
Pilots back then would make more announcements about points of interest. They would always point out the Grand Canyon and even go a little out of the way so the pax could get a good view.
Hot meals in coach. Specialty meals catered around holidays. I remember being served corned beef & cabbage on St Patrick's day on UA.
I flew a lot of Midway Airlines. Evening flights from business destinations (LGA-MDW, DCA-MDW) were a party in the smoking section. Seemed like everybody had a glass of scotch in hand. I thought I was living large flying first class on a DC9, LOL.
Hated the DC-10, a couple times I got the dreaded middle seat of 5. Pure torture. Never liked the way you could see the baggage bins twisting and flexing on that plane when manuevering and all the weird mechanical noises.
Continental Airlines was always a zoo at ORD. Chronically overbooked flights. But I'd flash my general member OnePass card at the GA (DYKWIA?), and there was a good chance they would upgrade me to first to free up a seat in back.
If you asked the GA nicely how things were looking on getting an upgrade to First, you just might get it. There weren't 56 people ahead of you on a computerized upgrade list.
If a coworker couldn't make the trip, you simply took their ticket and fly on it. No ID check, no change fees.
Handwritten tickets. Red carbon paper.
If I didn't feel like taking my original flight, I would show up at the airport when desired and go standby. No hassles about change fees or fare differences. Common sense prevailed - if there was an open seat on a earlier flight they'd give it to you so they could sell your later seat to someone else.
The plane's door was always open until the published departure time. If you were at the ticket counter a few minutes before departure, and promised to run fast enough, they would call ahead to the gate agent and keep the door open for you.
There was no internet so the true road warrior carried an OAG pocket guide that listed every airline's flight schedule. The other option was to find a pay phone to call your travel agent.
Arriving in SNA was special - a few steps from the airstairs to the baggage belt out in the open air and sunshine.
I forget exactly when in the 90's - I think it was Southwest who came on the scene with low fares around the holidays, the low price wars started, and flying was never the same again. In a year or two every flight on every airline was completely full with the overhead bins exploding from all the carry on crap. Empty middle seats and leg room rapidly disappeared...
Pilots back then would make more announcements about points of interest. They would always point out the Grand Canyon and even go a little out of the way so the pax could get a good view.
Hot meals in coach. Specialty meals catered around holidays. I remember being served corned beef & cabbage on St Patrick's day on UA.
I flew a lot of Midway Airlines. Evening flights from business destinations (LGA-MDW, DCA-MDW) were a party in the smoking section. Seemed like everybody had a glass of scotch in hand. I thought I was living large flying first class on a DC9, LOL.
Hated the DC-10, a couple times I got the dreaded middle seat of 5. Pure torture. Never liked the way you could see the baggage bins twisting and flexing on that plane when manuevering and all the weird mechanical noises.
Continental Airlines was always a zoo at ORD. Chronically overbooked flights. But I'd flash my general member OnePass card at the GA (DYKWIA?), and there was a good chance they would upgrade me to first to free up a seat in back.
If you asked the GA nicely how things were looking on getting an upgrade to First, you just might get it. There weren't 56 people ahead of you on a computerized upgrade list.
If a coworker couldn't make the trip, you simply took their ticket and fly on it. No ID check, no change fees.
Handwritten tickets. Red carbon paper.
If I didn't feel like taking my original flight, I would show up at the airport when desired and go standby. No hassles about change fees or fare differences. Common sense prevailed - if there was an open seat on a earlier flight they'd give it to you so they could sell your later seat to someone else.
The plane's door was always open until the published departure time. If you were at the ticket counter a few minutes before departure, and promised to run fast enough, they would call ahead to the gate agent and keep the door open for you.
There was no internet so the true road warrior carried an OAG pocket guide that listed every airline's flight schedule. The other option was to find a pay phone to call your travel agent.
Arriving in SNA was special - a few steps from the airstairs to the baggage belt out in the open air and sunshine.
I forget exactly when in the 90's - I think it was Southwest who came on the scene with low fares around the holidays, the low price wars started, and flying was never the same again. In a year or two every flight on every airline was completely full with the overhead bins exploding from all the carry on crap. Empty middle seats and leg room rapidly disappeared...
Sep 27, 2016, 11:07 am
#131
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,031
Back on thread: in the early 80s, there were several airlines offering a LGA-BOS shuttle. I had booked on one (perhaps Eastern) but mistakenly checked in and boarded another (perhaps AA), and they graciously honored my ticket and let me on the competitor airline's plane. That was kind, and not possible in today's security climate.
Sep 27, 2016, 12:23 pm
#132
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Programs: AA Platinum
Posts: 39
I distinctly remember my first flight--I think it was '88 or '89 and we were headed to Disneyworld. I was so excited for my first flight until my parents told me the Eastern Airlines pilots were on strike and we might not be able to go. We were scheduled to fly from PHL and luckily Continental would honor our tickets; we just had to get up to EWR. I remember it like yesterday: being so excited the night before I didn't sleep a wink, the pancakes served for breakfast, my dad taking me up to the flight deck while inflight, and my ears hurting like nothing I had ever felt before on our descent. Luckily, a very kind man in front of us offered me a stick of gum to help pop them. I've always had sympathy for even the loudest crying kid after going through that.
Sep 27, 2016, 2:41 pm
#133
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oregon USA
Posts: 7
If I may be permitted to digress: My first time flying was spring break 1966. My sis & I flew Eastern from Indy to Louisville, Delta to Tampa, and an eight-seat puddle jumper to Ft. Myers. Going home was National from Naples to Cincy, and something else to Indy. Nothing easy back then. Flying home to LAX in 1973 on AA from Indy, I got off the plane in Dallas for a few drinks. When I reboarded, there were no available seats in the smoking section, so they put me in first class where I was by myself with the stews, and the drinks were free! (I was 21). Distant but still fond memories...
Sep 27, 2016, 5:18 pm
#134
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New York and Vienna
Programs: PA WorldPass Platinum, AA, DL, LH. GHA Black, SPG and HHonors Gold
Posts: 3,870
Watch this Pan Am safety video from the late 1980s and don't forget to extinguish your cigarette fully before putting on your oxygen mask if they drop from the ceiling.
Sep 27, 2016, 6:37 pm
#135
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 1,580
I flew a lot in the 80s, was on board the FF programs nearly when they started, did most of my miles on UA. I was always greeted by name at the local airport because you always checked in at a counter in the lobby to get your boarding pass.
And getting those tickets! My work used to subscribe to the Official Airline Guide (OAG) which was about the size and paper quality of a telephone book (oops, who here has seen on of those??) It came out monthly, and listed all the flights. That's what you'd use to figure out an itin, then you'd call the airline and speak with a human to make the res. Sometimes "ticket by mail" and they would send it to you. I used to walk across the river from work (Cambridge) into Boston to go to a ticket office to pick up a ticket, especially award travel.
Whenever you passed some award milestone, they would send you paper certificates. These had to be mailed in or exchanged in person for the ticket - hence the walk above. Those offices closed years ago.
Then... magic! EasySabre was a text based interface you could use from a terminal to electronically access schedules. For some years I kept a cheap annual subscription to Delphi, an ISP (Internet Service Provider), because they had EasySabre. You could see the flights / connections / flight numbers and fare classes. I'm pretty sure you could select one and see a price. It was a lot of work but better than looking at the paper listing in the OAG. OAG listed flights, but not the available fare classes, or the fares.
In the event of IRROPS you called the airline, no online changing of anything. If you were high status they could do anything for you, and they would. Once I did a non-refundable non-changeable ticket and got the dates wrong; called back a few days later and no problem they changed it to what I needed.
The food? Well in F it was not so bad, I do miss the old sundae cart and on a westbound transcon there would be meat and cheese snack cart that came around - I always went for the smoked salmon. The Y food was edible. I was excited one summer when UA served cheeseburgers! On one trip my daughter came home and told mom that the lasagna on the plane was so good, it was better than home
oops.
For those of us who flew a lot, flying was not luxurious, even for recreation. My kid grew up taking many plane trips. We laughed a lot because on FA asked her, sweetly, if it was her first flight (she was about 5) and she said "I'd be Premier except my dad always gets me award tickets". And she could recite the safety talk from memory. But yes, I think there were fewer families and kids flying. And also fewer flying wearing grungy clothes.
And getting those tickets! My work used to subscribe to the Official Airline Guide (OAG) which was about the size and paper quality of a telephone book (oops, who here has seen on of those??) It came out monthly, and listed all the flights. That's what you'd use to figure out an itin, then you'd call the airline and speak with a human to make the res. Sometimes "ticket by mail" and they would send it to you. I used to walk across the river from work (Cambridge) into Boston to go to a ticket office to pick up a ticket, especially award travel.
Whenever you passed some award milestone, they would send you paper certificates. These had to be mailed in or exchanged in person for the ticket - hence the walk above. Those offices closed years ago.
Then... magic! EasySabre was a text based interface you could use from a terminal to electronically access schedules. For some years I kept a cheap annual subscription to Delphi, an ISP (Internet Service Provider), because they had EasySabre. You could see the flights / connections / flight numbers and fare classes. I'm pretty sure you could select one and see a price. It was a lot of work but better than looking at the paper listing in the OAG. OAG listed flights, but not the available fare classes, or the fares.
In the event of IRROPS you called the airline, no online changing of anything. If you were high status they could do anything for you, and they would. Once I did a non-refundable non-changeable ticket and got the dates wrong; called back a few days later and no problem they changed it to what I needed.
The food? Well in F it was not so bad, I do miss the old sundae cart and on a westbound transcon there would be meat and cheese snack cart that came around - I always went for the smoked salmon. The Y food was edible. I was excited one summer when UA served cheeseburgers! On one trip my daughter came home and told mom that the lasagna on the plane was so good, it was better than home
oops.For those of us who flew a lot, flying was not luxurious, even for recreation. My kid grew up taking many plane trips. We laughed a lot because on FA asked her, sweetly, if it was her first flight (she was about 5) and she said "I'd be Premier except my dad always gets me award tickets". And she could recite the safety talk from memory. But yes, I think there were fewer families and kids flying. And also fewer flying wearing grungy clothes.
Last edited by MojaveFlyer; Sep 27, 2016 at 7:23 pm