FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   TravelBuzz (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz-176/)
-   -   Refundable Ticket Charged in Foreign Currency. Lost $ on Refund. (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1748939-refundable-ticket-charged-foreign-currency-lost-refund.html)

Efrem Feb 25, 2016 11:23 am


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 26242288)
... You will find precious few threads on FT which start with, "I purchased in XXX and it went up, what do I do with the extra US$???"

And none at all that say "I want to return my currency exchange rate gain to the airline, but I don't know how."

pinniped Feb 25, 2016 11:42 am

My guess is the OP lost 1% each way in addition to the actual movement of the currencies.

Even though many credit cards advertise themselves as "no FX fees" these days, there's still an underlying network fee that always seems to be around 1%

Still, buying in euros was probably the correct move. If the European carrier gave you a dollars-option to begin with (as some do), it was undoubtedly a poor rate for that day, akin to the DCC scam you see in restaurants/bars/shops in some countries.

LAX_Esq Feb 25, 2016 12:16 pm

Thanks for all the responses. Interesting thread to read!

Actually, I disputed the difference with Amex yesterday, and received a credit today. So, the matter is resolved.


Originally Posted by mapleg (Post 26241366)
And Amex is not one of them, in my opinion.

Not always ;)


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 26242288)
There is a difference between the correction of an error and a simple refund. In the former, the merchant vendor ought to make the consumer's loss right, e.g., the consumer was double-charged and should not suffer a currency exchange loss because the merchane vendor made an error.

Here, OP simply purchased a product, chose to "return" it as he is permitted to and received a refund.

For the record, I don't think the difference between a "correction of an error" and a "simple refund" is automatically black and white. There was actually a 2 hour schedule change on the flights for this refundable ticket, which would have entitled me to a full refund even if it were a non-refundable ticket. That wasn't why I refunded the ticket; the agent just pointed that out to me and thought that's why I wanted the refund. Given that the flight schedule changed, was the refund a "correction of an error" and a "simple refund"? Not so clear.

CPRich Feb 25, 2016 2:09 pm


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 26242288)
Either purchase in the card's "home" currency or only purchase in currencies which your crystal ball tells you will increase or at least remain stable.

When the problem is driven by the card processor's FX spread, you will still lose money on a "stable", or even officially fixed, exchange rate. From Visa's exchange rate page:


INR to USD on 2/20
1 United States Dollar = 68.4837693467 Indian Rupee

USD to INR on 2/20
1 United States Dollar = 68.6766018817 Indian Rupee
Credit and refund $1000, using the same daily close, and you lose $2.81


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 26242288)
You will find precious few threads on FT which start with, "I purchased in XXX and it went up, what do I do with the extra US$???"

Not FT, but
Delayed foreign credit card transaction refund created “profit” due to better exchange rate - who keeps the profit?


So my question is, will the credit card company remove the US $20 "profit" this transaction created and keep it for themselves? Or I am entitled to have that as credit for me on my credit card statement?

alien43 Apr 25, 2018 10:53 am

I have a similar situation, I wonder what can you advise in my case.
I bought a ticket with AirFrance / KLM on their American website back in December, paid through Paypal in USD using my British credit card. The ticket was cancelled two days later, so I requested a refund. It took them 4 months (sic!) to issue my refund which is exactly the same amount in USD. However, due to the GBP / USD rate change and different buying / selling rates it cost me some 25 pounds.

I could probably live without them but I believe I am entitled to get the full amount back as this is none of my fault: the changes were initiated by the airline, and taking 4 months (+dozens of emails, phone calls and complaints) is unacceptable in any case.

What are my options? Who can I complain to and what is the appropriate procedure?

sbm12 Apr 25, 2018 11:11 am


Originally Posted by alien43 (Post 29682536)
I believe I am entitled to get the full amount back

You got the same dollars back.

If you want to complain about the delay in getting the refund processed the DOT is your outlet for that. https://airconsumer.dot.gov/escompla...nsumerForm.cfm

All it does is get the airline a black mark in the stats of complaints, though had you used it earlier in the process it likely would have sped the refund handling. Unlikely it will get you more cash.

I had a similar issue with Hertz in the UK where I lost $50+ on a currency swing for a fraudulent charge. Sucks, but life goes on.

LondonElite Apr 25, 2018 2:55 pm

If you got back the same amount in the currency that you initially paid in you are due nothing further. Exchange rate movements are simply a fact of life. I’m curious, what was (sic) about it?

Often1 Apr 25, 2018 6:10 pm

You chose to pay in US$ and your refund was then issued in US$. The fact that you purchased with GBP or some other currency and then repurchased with EUR is none of AF/KL's concern and the risk (or reward) of the exchange rates is yours to take.

For future consideration, purchasing air tickets with any payment channel other than a credit card is risky for more reasons than this. Nonetheless, when you did not see your refund relatively immediately, contac both PayPal and the issuing bank for your card. You would have seen your refund quite soon.

Steve M Apr 25, 2018 6:34 pm

How is this situation any different than one where your credit card carries a prior balance and thus an interest cost from the date of purchase? Say you buy a ticket on Jan 1, and refund on Jan 20. Even if the refund was due to a schedule change, would you expect the airline to make you whole on the 20 days of interest you incurred? What if it was a refundable fare and entirely at your choice to refund? I think the answer is an obvious No. It's not the carrier's responsibility that you chose to borrow the money for the ticket and thus incurred interest, any more than it's theirs that you chose to pay for the ticket in a currency other than the one that they sold in in and thus incurred a forex cost. In both cases, the financing and payment issues outside of the transaction itself are your responsibility.

lhrsfo Apr 26, 2018 7:44 am

In any event, a good part of the US$ loss will have been in charges for foreign exchange, rather than a change in the exchange rate. It seems a curious decision to buy a ticket in US$ when you want to pay in GBP. There are plenty of ways around this, using OTAs, for example.

alien43 Apr 26, 2018 7:45 am

Thanks everyone! I realise that exchange rates are not the airline's fault. However, I paid for a service which I never received and still was charged a small amount for it, that sounds unfair to me. If they returned the money straightaway, I would not complain, provided they have a valid reason for that.

LondonElite,
I find 4 months of delay with returning my money to me to be unacceptable. Bank transfers are much quicker nowadays, and I am not a money lender.

LondonElite Apr 26, 2018 8:06 am


Originally Posted by alien43 (Post 29685777)
Thanks everyone! I realise that exchange rates are not the airline's fault. However, I paid for a service which I never received and still was charged a small amount for it, that sounds unfair to me. If they returned the money straightaway, I would not complain, provided they have a valid reason for that.

LondonElite,
I find 4 months of delay with returning my money to me to be unacceptable. Bank transfers are much quicker nowadays, and I am not a money lender.

We had a similar complaint from an American a while back. She complained that whatever airline took too long to agree to pay her the EC261 compensation. In that time the exchange rate went sharply against her, and that the USD amount of EUR 600 was less than it would have been at the time. No one argued with her about that, but it was unanimous that EC261 only pays out EUR, and that while the delay is regrettable, she's only ever going to get EUR.

Your situation is similar. The refund took too long, that is true, but you are not going to get the airline to cover your GBP loss. By extension, they'd have to hedge every payment they ever receive in that case. To put a different spin on it, would you have been willing to pay back any forex profit you made if the exchange rate went in a different direction?

skywardhunter Apr 26, 2018 9:06 am


Originally Posted by alien43 (Post 29685777)
Thanks everyone! I realise that exchange rates are not the airline's fault. However, I paid for a service which I never received and still was charged a small amount for it, that sounds unfair to me. If they returned the money straightaway, I would not complain, provided they have a valid reason for that.

LondonElite,
I find 4 months of delay with returning my money to me to be unacceptable. Bank transfers are much quicker nowadays, and I am not a money lender.

Yes you were charged a small amount, but not by the airline. If anything talk to the bank, they're sitting on the 25GBP

Often1 Apr 26, 2018 9:54 am


Originally Posted by LondonElite (Post 29685836)
We had a similar complaint from an American a while back. She complained that whatever airline took too long to agree to pay her the EC261 compensation. In that time the exchange rate went sharply against her, and that the USD amount of EUR 600 was less than it would have been at the time. No one argued with her about that, but it was unanimous that EC261 only pays out EUR, and that while the delay is regrettable, she's only ever going to get EUR.

Your situation is similar. The refund took too long, that is true, but you are not going to get the airline to cover your GBP loss. By extension, they'd have to hedge every payment they ever receive in that case. To put a different spin on it, would you have been willing to pay back any forex profit you made if the exchange rate went in a different direction?

It was unanimous on the part of the ECJ or FT?

In that one it is a pure courtesy or convenience that the carrier pays out in local currency. EC 261/2004 specifies a penalty amount for compensation, refund, or reimbursement, in EUR and the carrier could simply pay out in EUR and leave it to the passenger to figure out how to convert that into local currency and deposit it.

Grand_Tour_18 Apr 27, 2018 2:23 pm

On FX, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. No recourse.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 5:24 pm.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.