When Is a Country Not a Country? Border Conundrums For Travelers
Jan 2, 2016, 3:40 pm
#46
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- They have country codes for Guam and Puerto Rico
- They don't have country code for Kosovo
Jan 2, 2016, 3:51 pm
#47
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I agree with you on your definition of what doing something in a country is. I think for states it's okay to have a lower threshold. I've technically been to all 50 states but of those, 7 are "cheat states" where I've only just taken the train or driven through them (though I have gotten out and touched solid ground in all 7).
Have they been to X?
Jan 2, 2016, 8:22 pm
#48
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Jan 3, 2016, 11:30 am
#49
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I guess it's semantics but I figure if your body has been inside the borders of a place then one has "been in" that country regardless of the amount of time or activities. But to say one has "visited", to me implies having seen sights, done activities, etc.
Jan 3, 2016, 1:39 pm
#50
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Even if your airplane touched down there and you didn't leave your seat - let alone clear immigration? An airport, after all, is inside the borders of the country.
Jan 3, 2016, 3:04 pm
#51
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In order to count a country (my individual rules) I have to have my feet on the ground, outside the airport terminal or other arrival area. I don't count countries where I am in an airport, in transit.
Thus, I counted Slovakia on a coach trip from Krakow (Poland) to Budapest (Hungary) only because we passed through it and stopped there en route, and I got off the coach to buy a sandwich at a rest stop.
If the coach had not stopped, or if it had stopped but I stayed on the coach, I would not have counted Slovakia.
Thus, I counted Slovakia on a coach trip from Krakow (Poland) to Budapest (Hungary) only because we passed through it and stopped there en route, and I got off the coach to buy a sandwich at a rest stop.
If the coach had not stopped, or if it had stopped but I stayed on the coach, I would not have counted Slovakia.
Jan 3, 2016, 7:03 pm
#52
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I also play by the rule of counting a country if I've been on land outside an airport. So airport connections wouldn't count, but I think crossing through a country by train would.
During the brief period when US citizens needed a transit visa for Ukraine, I was thrown off a train just inside the Ukrainian border for not having one. I spent 12 hours and was sent back to Moscow, where I got a same-day transit visa, and then I took the same train back through Ukraine to Hungary. I haven't set foot on Ukrainian soil, and I haven't done any sightseeing there, but damn it if I'm not counting the country after all that! Despite the sour experience I still hope to visit it properly sometime.
As for territories of other countries, I suppose I don't count them. So I count Tibet as part of China and Greenland as part of Denmark. I'm not sure what to do about Hong Kong and Macau, since I was in both in 1998 -- Macau wasn't yet Chinese but Hong Kong was.
Seth
During the brief period when US citizens needed a transit visa for Ukraine, I was thrown off a train just inside the Ukrainian border for not having one. I spent 12 hours and was sent back to Moscow, where I got a same-day transit visa, and then I took the same train back through Ukraine to Hungary. I haven't set foot on Ukrainian soil, and I haven't done any sightseeing there, but damn it if I'm not counting the country after all that! Despite the sour experience I still hope to visit it properly sometime.
As for territories of other countries, I suppose I don't count them. So I count Tibet as part of China and Greenland as part of Denmark. I'm not sure what to do about Hong Kong and Macau, since I was in both in 1998 -- Macau wasn't yet Chinese but Hong Kong was.
Seth
Jan 3, 2016, 9:05 pm
#53
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I did stuff, though rushed, but spent only 20ish hours in the country.
Jan 4, 2016, 8:31 am
#54
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The Munich visit counts.
To the question about remaining in an airport transit hotel (e.g., international airside, no C&I), I'd say this is more akin to a regular flight connection. I wouldn't count it.
I've only done this once - Delhi - on a connection from HKG to KTM. Slept in the transit hotel for 6 hours. (Very spartan hotel...just a small room with one bed, a sink, and a little shower...and a window overlooking the inside of the airport. But welcome and worthwhile...and certainly better than one of those pods.) I wouldn't have counted that as an India visit, but we came back to DEL a week later and then spent a week in the country so it quickly became a moot point.
If anyone has any question about whether Wales is a separate country than England, I suggest you find your nearest Welsh rugby fan and ask him.
To the question about remaining in an airport transit hotel (e.g., international airside, no C&I), I'd say this is more akin to a regular flight connection. I wouldn't count it.
I've only done this once - Delhi - on a connection from HKG to KTM. Slept in the transit hotel for 6 hours. (Very spartan hotel...just a small room with one bed, a sink, and a little shower...and a window overlooking the inside of the airport. But welcome and worthwhile...and certainly better than one of those pods.) I wouldn't have counted that as an India visit, but we came back to DEL a week later and then spent a week in the country so it quickly became a moot point.
If anyone has any question about whether Wales is a separate country than England, I suggest you find your nearest Welsh rugby fan and ask him.
Jan 4, 2016, 8:54 am
#55
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It had better be a separate country because Wales is the only letter "W" in my alphabetical list of countries (complete except for the nonexistent X)!
Jan 4, 2016, 9:01 am
#56
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I also play by the rule of counting a country if I've been on land outside an airport. So airport connections wouldn't count, but I think crossing through a country by train would.
During the brief period when US citizens needed a transit visa for Ukraine, I was thrown off a train just inside the Ukrainian border for not having one. I spent 12 hours and was sent back to Moscow, where I got a same-day transit visa, and then I took the same train back through Ukraine to Hungary. I haven't set foot on Ukrainian soil, and I haven't done any sightseeing there, but damn it if I'm not counting the country after all that! Despite the sour experience I still hope to visit it properly sometime.
As for territories of other countries, I suppose I don't count them. So I count Tibet as part of China and Greenland as part of Denmark. I'm not sure what to do about Hong Kong and Macau, since I was in both in 1998 -- Macau wasn't yet Chinese but Hong Kong was.
Seth
During the brief period when US citizens needed a transit visa for Ukraine, I was thrown off a train just inside the Ukrainian border for not having one. I spent 12 hours and was sent back to Moscow, where I got a same-day transit visa, and then I took the same train back through Ukraine to Hungary. I haven't set foot on Ukrainian soil, and I haven't done any sightseeing there, but damn it if I'm not counting the country after all that! Despite the sour experience I still hope to visit it properly sometime.
As for territories of other countries, I suppose I don't count them. So I count Tibet as part of China and Greenland as part of Denmark. I'm not sure what to do about Hong Kong and Macau, since I was in both in 1998 -- Macau wasn't yet Chinese but Hong Kong was.
Seth
A visa to enter Denmark or another Schengen country is not valid for entry into the Faroe Islands or Greenland. Neither Greenland nor the Faroe Islands are members of the EU and they are not parties to the Schengen Agreement.
If you need a visa to enter the Faroe Islands or Greenland, you will most likely also need a Schengen visa, since most travel to these two countries goes through a Schengen country, such as Denmark.
Citizens from visa free countries do not need a visa.
If you need a visa to enter the Faroe Islands or Greenland, you will most likely also need a Schengen visa, since most travel to these two countries goes through a Schengen country, such as Denmark.
Citizens from visa free countries do not need a visa.
https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/comi..._greenland.htm
If I want to be in Greenland for seven months straight and in EU Denmark for seven months right thereafter, I'd need two separate visas as a US citizen? Then that means different countries to me. Just saying.
Jan 4, 2016, 11:24 am
#58
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There are hotels in Liechtenstein and San Marino; I've seen them.
MarshaB and I spent two days in Liechtenstein. The hotel was above the town of Vaduz surrounded by fields complete with cows wearing tinkling bells. The hotel restaurant was also excellent.
Scotland has its own money, accepted 1:1 against the British pound but generally not good outside of Scotland. Wales has its own (at least traditional/historical) language. Both of these features IMO are an argument for countryhood.
Agreed
To me, Taiwan, mainland China, Hong Kong, and Macao are four separate countries--I've visited three--as they have their own very different entry requirements and travel documents.
I agree since each have separate entry and border controls. Have visited all four. The requirement for a Mainland Chinese 72 hour visa is to fly in from one country and leave to another. I flew into Chengdu from Bangkok and flew out to Taiwan so even the Chinese government considers Taiwan as another country.
MarshaB and I spent two days in Liechtenstein. The hotel was above the town of Vaduz surrounded by fields complete with cows wearing tinkling bells. The hotel restaurant was also excellent.
Scotland has its own money, accepted 1:1 against the British pound but generally not good outside of Scotland. Wales has its own (at least traditional/historical) language. Both of these features IMO are an argument for countryhood.
Agreed
To me, Taiwan, mainland China, Hong Kong, and Macao are four separate countries--I've visited three--as they have their own very different entry requirements and travel documents.
I agree since each have separate entry and border controls. Have visited all four. The requirement for a Mainland Chinese 72 hour visa is to fly in from one country and leave to another. I flew into Chengdu from Bangkok and flew out to Taiwan so even the Chinese government considers Taiwan as another country.
Jan 4, 2016, 12:20 pm
#59
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- They have country codes for Guam and Puerto Rico
This is an interesting thread. I think that there's a general sense of what counts and what doesn't, but I also think that any attempt to come up with a single, universal rule is going to be flawed, and at the very least would need to have a list of exceptions. There are all sorts of corner cases, many of which have been pointed out already.
Here's mine: Democratic People's Republic of Korea (aka North Korea). I've not traveled there as part of a multi-day tour where I had a visa, went through C&I, and stayed the night, but I did enter the DMZ from the South and stepped over the border at Panmunjom a few feet into North Korea. In fact, one of the highlights of the DMZ tour is that you are able to actually step into North Korea if you like. So I count that on my list, even if I do put an asterisk next to it, whereas I wouldn't count an airport connection, or a train that just went through a country without me getting off.
Jan 4, 2016, 12:27 pm
#60
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What about for me, like in Munich, Arrived at 1PM, wondered around the Olympic park and BMW museum, went to Hofbrauhaus, then went to a Christmas market, slept, went for an early morning run, then back to the airport for a 9am flight?
I did stuff, though rushed, but spent only 20ish hours in the country.
I did stuff, though rushed, but spent only 20ish hours in the country.