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Disabled PX in Exit Row
So I just boarded my flight, UA5933 MSN - ORD. As a GS I get the benefit of pre-boarding right after passenger with disabilities. I was surprised when the PX in front of me was seated in an exit row. GA did the usual, "are you comfortable..." speech before letting him board.
Not sure what the formal policy is but I would be surprised if this passenger had any ability to quickly pick up a 35lb door and throw it with force out of the way I considered telling the FA as Insat down but wasn't sure it was the right call. What would you do? |
I surely don't know what I would do. Maybe just get off the plane and take another form of transport, I guess.
Did anyone die? |
Originally Posted by Nephroid
(Post 25730606)
So I just boarded my flight, UA5933 MSN - ORD. As a GS I get the benefit of pre-boarding right after passenger with disabilities. I was surprised when the PX in front of me was seated in an exit row. GA did the usual, "are you comfortable..." speech before letting him board.
Not sure what the formal policy is but I would be surprised if this passenger had any ability to quickly pick up a 35lb door and throw it with force out of the way I considered telling the FA as Insat down but wasn't sure it was the right call. What would you do? |
Originally Posted by Allan38103
(Post 25730638)
I surely don't know what I would do. Maybe just get off the plane and take another form of transport, I guess.
Did anyone die? Sorry if I didn't make it clear, this was someone who wasn't able to carry their own bag and was barely able to get down the jetway under their own steam. In the end I suppose it's the GA/FA's call. Let's just say I was glad to be sitting near another exit. |
Originally Posted by Nephroid
(Post 25731203)
In the end I suppose it's the GA/FA's call. Let's just say I was glad to be sitting near another exit.
This is a case where letting the FA know immediately (and discreetly), most certainly before the door closed, is a necessity. That nothing happened during the flight is irrelevant. |
In the end I chickened out and should have said something. Common sense would say that Federal Law or not, requiring assistance to board a flight should be an automatic disqualifier for sitting in the exit row.
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I have been booted out of my (even paid) Exit row seat on UA once as I was half asleep when the FA came around to ask if everyone is ok with seating in an emergency row. I asked "Excuse me? I did not get what you just said" and based on my German accent the lovely lady decided I was not fit to sit in the emergency row since she just decided that I do not understand/speak English. ;)
Of course arguing that I just didn't get it as I was tired and not attentive didn't help. Anyway, last few flights where I saw young kids or clearly disabled pax in emergency rows the FA swapped them out of their seats after the emergency briefing. And if they don't you should discretely point it out to them... did it myself once and it was no problem at all. |
Originally Posted by fassy
(Post 25732671)
I have been booted out of my (even paid) Exit row seat on UA once as I was half asleep when the FA came around to ask if everyone is ok with seating in an emergency row. I asked "Excuse me? I did not get what you just said" and based on my German accent the lovely lady decided I was not fit to sit in the emergency row since she just decided that I do not understand/speak English. ;)
Of course arguing that I just didn't get it as I was tired and not attentive didn't help. Anyway, last few flights where I saw young kids or clearly disabled pax in emergency rows the FA swapped them out of their seats after the emergency briefing. And if they don't you should discretely point it out to them... did it myself once and it was no problem at all. |
I was on a DL small RJ (DeltaConnection carrier) where they guy sitting next to me in the exit row was too old/feeble/senile to walk down the aisle himself or to find his own seat, sit in it, and fasten his seat belt. (His middle-aged daughter settled him into the seat, talking to him as if he were a toddler, and fastened the seat belt for him after repeated requests that he didn't understand.) Against my better judgment, I said nothing at the time even after pointedly getting the FA's eye and then looking at him when she did the emergency row briefing. (The real old guy and his daughter boarded at the very end, so there wasn't time to leave my seat to discretely mention the problem to someone.)
After thinking about the situation, I called DL the next day and it was taken very seriously.....or at least they humored me about the issue. |
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
(Post 25733774)
I was on a DL small RJ (DeltaConnection carrier) where they guy sitting next to me in the exit row was too old/feeble/senile to walk down the aisle himself or to find his own seat, sit in it, and fasten his seat belt. (His middle-aged daughter settled him into the seat, talking to him as if he were a toddler, and fastened the seat belt for him after repeated requests that he didn't understand.) Against my better judgment, I said nothing at the time even after pointedly getting the FA's eye and then looking at him when she did the emergency row briefing. (The real old guy and his daughter boarded at the very end, so there wasn't time to leave my seat to discretely mention the problem to someone.)
After thinking about the situation, I called DL the next day and it was taken very seriously.....or at least they humored my about the issue. |
Originally Posted by Allan38103
(Post 25730638)
I surely don't know what I would do. Maybe just get off the plane and take another form of transport, I guess.
Did anyone die? ...until someone does. 14CFR121.585: No certificate holder may seat a person in a seat affected by this section if the certificate holder determines that it is likely that the person would be unable to perform one or more of the applicable functions.... It's the airline that would get its peepee slapped by the FAA. The slapping would then continue downhill. |
Originally Posted by Tchiowa
(Post 25730953)
There is no formal policy. There is a federal law but it's vague and basically says that the passenger must be willing and able to assist during an emergency.
(b) No certificate holder may seat a person in a seat affected by this section if the certificate holder determines that it is likely that the person would be unable to perform one or more of the applicable functions listed in paragraph (d) of this section because— (1) The person lacks sufficient mobility, strength, or dexterity in both arms and hands, and both legs: (i) To reach upward, sideways, and downward to the location of emergency exit and exit-slide operating mechanisms; (ii) To grasp and push, pull, turn, or otherwise manipulate those mechanisms; (iii) To push, shove, pull, or otherwise open emergency exits; (iv) To lift out, hold, deposit on nearby seats, or maneuver over the seatbacks to the next row objects the size and weight of over-wing window exit doors; (v) To remove obstructions similar in size and weight to over-wing exit doors; (vi) To reach the emergency exit expeditiously; (vii) To maintain balance while removing obstructions; (viii) To exit expeditiously; (ix) To stabilize an escape slide after deployment; or (x) To assist others in getting off an escape slide; (2) The person is less than 15 years of age or lacks the capacity to perform one or more of the applicable functions listed in paragraph (d) of this section without the assistance of an adult companion, parent, or other relative; (3) The person lacks the ability to read and understand instructions required by this section and related to emergency evacuation provided by the certificate holder in printed or graphic form or the ability to understand oral crew commands. (4) The person lacks sufficient visual capacity to perform one or more of the applicable functions in paragraph (d) of this section without the assistance of visual aids beyond contact lenses or eyeglasses; (5) The person lacks sufficient aural capacity to hear and understand instructions shouted by flight attendants, without assistance beyond a hearing aid; (6) The person lacks the ability adequately to impart information orally to other passengers; or, (7) The person has: (i) A condition or responsibilities, such as caring for small children, that might prevent the person from performing one or more of the applicable functions listed in paragraph (d) of this section; or (ii) A condition that might cause the person harm if he or she performs one or more of the applicable functions listed in paragraph (d) of this section. |
Disabled PX in Exit Row
It is something that should always be pointed out to the flight crew, preferably to the purser or in charge. It is a safety issue and something that is taken very seriously by airlines and the governing bodies in each country. I have seen few fines given out by Transport Canada to airlines I have worked for this reason. Too many FAs just try to avoid awkward conversations in this matter instead of doing their number one job which is the safety of the passengers.
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Originally Posted by industry_killer
(Post 25734788)
It is something that should always be pointed out to the flight crew, preferably to the purser or in charge. It is a safety issue and something that is taken very seriously by airlines and the governing bodies in each country. I have seen few fines given out by Transport Canada to airlines I have worked for this reason. Too many FAs just try to avoid awkward conversations in this matter instead of doing their number one job which is the safety of the passengers.
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There are two options here. Either the passenger had disabilities and therefore should have been re-seated. Or the passenger was perfectly able, but claiming to have disabilities so as to board earlier. In which case he/she should have been booted off the plane and sent to the back of the queue.
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Let's say you're seated by a disabled exit row pax who is clearly unfit for the job. You mention it to the FA who disregards the safety issue. Obviously you can suck it up (and hope you don't die in an emergency), but if you choose to disembark, what's the protocol for doing so in a way that let's you get rebooked? (Complain to the GA? Cust Svc? Threaten/file a DOT complaint?)
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In my case, the plan was to shove the old senile frail guy out of the way in an emergency.
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
(Post 25735737)
In my case, the plan was to shove the old senile frail guy out of the way in an emergency.
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Originally Posted by DaveBlaine
(Post 25735744)
Totally agree. After all, since he's closest to death anyways, he can get there first.
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
(Post 25735756)
It's more like whether one person should prevent fifty from evacuating in an emergency.
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Originally Posted by Nephroid
(Post 25730606)
So I just boarded my flight, UA5933 MSN - ORD. As a GS I get the benefit of pre-boarding right after passenger with disabilities. I was surprised when the PX in front of me was seated in an exit row. GA did the usual, "are you comfortable..." speech before letting him board.
Not sure what the formal policy is but I would be surprised if this passenger had any ability to quickly pick up a 35lb door and throw it with force out of the way I considered telling the FA as Insat down but wasn't sure it was the right call. What would you do? |
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist In my case, the plan was to shove the old senile frail guy out of the way in an emergency. Originally Posted by DaveBlaine Totally agree. After all, since he's closest to death anyways, he can get there first. Who are you people? You come on a public forum and disparage others like that? And it is allowed? Discussing this as a safety issue is one thing, but this lack of respect for older or disabled people is uncalled for. |
Originally Posted by Scott Kiwi
(Post 25753084)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist In my case, the plan was to shove the old senile frail guy out of the way in an emergency. Originally Posted by DaveBlaine Totally agree. After all, since he's closest to death anyways, he can get there first. Who are you people? You come on a public forum and disparage others like that? And it is allowed? Discussing this as a safety issue is one thing, but this lack of respect for older or disabled people is uncalled for. |
Get up, go to talk to the FA and ask to talk to the captain. Tell them to fix it or you're going to talk to management. Take a picture if you want. The safety rules tend to get taken serious.
In the modern day and age of annoying morons on social media, it's hard for an FA to do their job. They move a disabled person and there's 10k retweets about how they're evil. You complaining should have set things in motion. |
Actually had this happen on a recent flight, but with a positive outcome.
Flying AS SJC-SJD. Older lady (70-80's), fully there mentally, but used a wheelchair down the jetway, and boarded with a single walking crutch was seated in an exit row. As the flight attendant helping with boarding realized she stowed a crutch, she asked the passenger if she was physically able and willing to help and can she pick up a 35# door? Her response was yes. A few minutes later the purser and one of the gate agents came down and spoke to her again and let her know that they were sorry but they'd have to reseat her. They ended up moving her and her companion to another row and offered them drinks for their troubles. Not always what you want to do, but when it comes to safety, sometimes you have to. |
Originally Posted by VWTim
(Post 25761435)
Actually had this happen on a recent flight, but with a positive outcome.
Flying AS SJC-SJD. Older lady (70-80's), fully there mentally, but used a wheelchair down the jetway, and boarded with a single walking crutch was seated in an exit row. As the flight attendant helping with boarding realized she stowed a crutch, she asked the passenger if she was physically able and willing to help and can she pick up a 35# door? Her response was yes. A few minutes later the purser and one of the gate agents came down and spoke to her again and let her know that they were sorry but they'd have to reseat her. They ended up moving her and her companion to another row and offered them drinks for their troubles. Not always what you want to do, but when it comes to safety, sometimes you have to. |
I don't understand how there could be a question about whether someone who boards early in a wheelchair is qualified to sit in an exit row. Moreover, the travel companion should also automatically be reseated as he might be distracted by trying to help her in an emergency rather than performing his exit row duties (just as people traveling with children are forbidden to sit in exit rows even if the kids are not in the exit row).
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Originally Posted by Jages
(Post 25733697)
..It was almost an empty plane.
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I was on a completely empty MD-80 not long ago. Was pretty funny.I was sneaky to find the lfight. the other people on my place got stuck at hotels near the airport overnight.
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
(Post 25762220)
I don't understand how there could be a question about whether someone who boards early in a wheelchair is qualified to sit in an exit row. Moreover, the travel companion should also automatically be reseated as he might be distracted by trying to help her in an emergency rather than performing his exit row duties (just as people traveling with children are forbidden to sit in exit rows even if the kids are not in the exit row).
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Originally Posted by emma69
(Post 25765316)
Whilst I tend to agree with you, there are those who use a wheelchair service as they can't stand for long / walk very far without pain, say a twisted ankle, a knee injury, plantar fasciitis etc. where walking and standing around can be painful. That is a completely different physical attribute than being able to obey instructions, lift a door, and exit the plane speedily. There is a difference between optimizing your everyday comfort while you have a minor injury, and being incapable of acting in an emergency.
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The time to deal with these things is on the spot. If the FA won't fix it, ask the FA to bring it to the Captain's attention.
If you choose to off-load yourself, I doubt that any GA will refuse a rebooking because the last thing they want is an FAA investigation of the individual's capacity. FA's are trained to deal with this in a sensitive manner and most likely the FA here just slipped up and didn't notice. |
Originally Posted by DaveBlaine
(Post 25765382)
That may be true but stereotypes are a real time-saver. :)
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I agree that needing a wheelchair doesn't necessarily disqualify someone. In a previous lifetime I knew someone who had suffered a spinal cord injury in an accident, but was in outstanding physical shape from the waist up, could toss an exit door out of the way as easily as most of us toss a used tissue, and could somersault through the opening using his arms faster than most of us could go through the normal way. I'd rather have him next to the exit window than just about anyone else I can think of.
However, Dan C. was (and probably still is) the exception. If I see a frail-looking person going from a wheelchair to an exit row seat, I'll mention it quietly to an FA - because that person is supposed to be my protection in an emergency, not an obstacle to rapid egress. I'll let the FA take it from there. They know what to do. If alerted to a need by a passenger, they'll be sure to do it. |
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
(Post 25766217)
It's not a matter of stereotypes but the obvious fact that if it hurts someone to move, that person will be less effective or slower to move in an emergency.
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