Refusing to gate-check bag
 

Hello,

I would appreciate any guidance Flyertalkers have about a situation I experienced recently.

I was flying domestically in the US with no checked luggage and a carry-on roll-aboard bag that is well within the legal dimensions. However, the flight was full and the GA was making announcements encouraging people to gate check their bags free of charge.

When I was in the jetway, the FA announced there was "no more space" on board and all remaining bags would have to be checked in. A couple of people ahead of me complied.

I had valuable and fragile objects in my bag that were not packed appropriately to be checked in, and I explained this to the FA. She was understanding, but said that she couldn't do anything about it. When I refused to check in my bag, she eventually said that my only other option was to wait for the next flight. I said that would be fine. It was Friday and I didn't need to be home until Sunday, so no problem as long as they could get me on another flight within the next two days. She told me to go back outside and re-book.

The GA, however, was having none of it. She immediately told me that if I didn't hand over my bag to be checked in and board the flight before the doors closed, I would "forfeit" my ticket. I asked if there was space on another flight that day, and she said yes, plenty of space, if you buy a new ticket at the walk-up price. She obviously didn't want to deal with me, so she told me to go outside and talk to the folks at the ticket counter.

They weren't helpful either, and basically told me that I was a no-show and my ticket had been canceled and I could buy a new one. Eventually, I decided to hop onto the BART and took a Megabus down to LA instead of flying.

What are the policies regarding this? Can you be "forced" to check in your bag? If you refuse, are there any other options?

Refusing to gate-check bag
 

(Error)

unless you're flying first class or in the first boarding group, always be prepared to gate check a large bag. If something in the bag was fragile or valuable, you could have taken it out.

Yes, you were in the wrong here. Tragedy of the commons, if everyone acted like you, no plane would ever leave and the Gate Agents would have to adjudicate who had the best reason why their luggage was to important to check.

What airline?

Impossible to tell whether the GA was correct without knowing the carrier and the fare rules for OP's ticket.

While it is true that many tickets lose their value if you no show (which OP was effectively doing), others may be changeable, changeable on the day of (SDC) (with or without smallish fee), or changeable for a fee + fare difference. No way of knowing without knowing the rules for OP's ticket.

As to the specific issue, the FA was wrong and on most carriers has no authority to handle ticketing. The GA was largely correct if correct about the fare rules.

Not only unworkable to allow individuals to decide which rules they must obey, but it would become the immediate FT scam of the week (show up last to board with a bag and they will rebook you for free).

If it's under legal dimensions, then it should fit under the seat in front of you. (Unless there is some kind of PTV control box taking up some of it.)

Interesting. I was not aware of that. I will have to check the next time I fly with my rollaboard, as it's under the legal dimensions. I don't have any evidence, but I would not have suspected that there would be enough height from floor to the bottom of the seat in front of me to accommodate a bag within the legal dimensions.

But, back to the OP, I have never been under the impression that I had any right to keep a specific bag in the cabin. I've always packed with the expectation that my bag could get pulled for gate checking. That's why I follow the advice to never pack anything fragile or valuable in a bag that couldn't fit under my seat. Same with prescriptions and other stuff that I would never want in the cargo hold.

It's actually pretty roomy. I've had to put my barely legal carry-on down there once or twice (for reference: UA mainline E-). It might have protruded a bit, but nothing the FA was going to call me out on.

False.

22 doesn't fit in 20. And sticking out 5 inches into the foot area also doesn't fly.

See http://www.dogjaunt.com/guides/airpl...-measurements/ for lots of detailed data

This is only semi related, but last week I had a certain airline drop my Red Oxx Airboss into the bag size template, and the gate agent deemed that the bag was oversized because it would not "easily fit." It was not overpacked (or even close) and would have easily fit if he had pushed down slightly on the bag, since it is soft sided and wasn't the right shape when he dropped it in.

I went along with it with a smile because there is no use arguing, but it was pretty silly. The bag had to be gate checked.

Why the vagueness? If we knew which airline, then the answers would be more accurate and probably more forthcoming. I have all sorts of theories in my head, but most of them would be moot depending on which carrier it was.

If one is that concerned about the contents of their carry-on bag, they should be proactive and invest in paying the additional fee for 'priority boarding' privileges.

Refusing to gate-check bag
 

I always have a shopping reusable bag or nylon duffel packed in my bag just in case I need to check the bag or if overweight in Europe. It has saved me many times.

This. When travelling with a baby I actually look for gate check, and all my necessities are in my "bag in bag".

The "solution" to this is to agree to gate-check the bag, but to request your right to declare "excess valuation" of the contents to increase the level of carrier liability (and to pay the relevant fees mandated in the Contract of Carriage for the excess valuation). The airline is obliged to permit you to do this at the point of luggage check-in.

In every single case I've requested to do this, the agents back off pretty much immediately. It's easier to let you carry the bag on board than to deal with the paperwork for the excess valuation, which would almost certainly either delay the flight or wind up with the flight departing without you.

Note that this only works if you are within your baggage allowance and passage is being denied purely because of "space on board" and not due to non-compliance on your part. If your bag is too large or too heavy, I would not suggest you try this.

I'll agree with others here that there's no guarantee that there will be room for your carry-on. But since there were later flights that day available, and OP was willing to be moved to one, that's the reasonable and logical solution.

(That's not very game-able, few passengers would want to schlep out to the airport, wait for boarding, for the "benefit" of a free rebooking to a flight a few hours later. )

I wonder what would have happened if you explained that your carry-on was full of spare lithium batteries?

They can't force you to check your bag. They can however determine where your bag will be placed. It was your decision not to board the plane therefore you are a no show in their eyes and will be treated accordingly.

This was apparently a domestic flight, so the COC exclusions apply and excess valuation would not affect claims. Put in plain English, you can declare and pay for whatever you want, but the exclusions for valuables would still apply.

Might be helpful on international, but not that most carriers would require that the declaration be made by the baggage cutoff and that would likely have passed.

Bear in mind that nobody can force you to fly. But, that doesn't mean that your ticket retains value if you choose not to.

Nobody has an automatic right to bin / carry-on space. If the aircraft had been a CRJ200 this would not even be a discussion point... there's no room inside for a rollaboard. OP should have planned accordingly.

Not all airlines sell the right to board early.

Can I ask you how you did this? When my kids were babies, I always tried to gate check them, but the GAs said it wasn't allowed.

Mike

Thanks for all the answers. Since a few people have asked, this was UA SFO-LAX on a 737.

What bothers me is that the FA told me to just go out and ask to get put on the next flight, as if this was a common occurrence. When I went out, the GA seemed busy and didn't want to deal with me, so she passed me on to someone else.

Here is the airline's carry-on baggage page: https://www.united.com/CMS/en-US/tra...eCarry-On.aspx It clearly says that "each traveler can bring on board one carry-on bag plus one personal item free of charge". There are no asterisks or disclaimers anywhere about room not being available. Perhaps it's in the fine print somewhere else.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that airlines will provide the service they advertise. Of course sometimes it's just not possible, but in those cases they should work with you to provide another alternative rather than saying sorry, you're out of luck.

In that case, were you not offered the option of standing by or even pay for a confirmed flight change? How hard did you push them?

I think UA did you wrong.

I've always wondered about that myself. If they know they don't have room in the overhead bins for that, and if they're not going to enforce the rule (because they often don't - how many times have all of us seen pax boarding with more bags than a Samsonite shop), then they shouldn't advertise it.

I've reached the point I just pay for priority these days because I don't want to deal with it anymore. Even on official travel, if I'm not in uniform or I know the airline doesn't let military in uniform board first (or I'm not flying in uniform), I pony up for Economy Plus out of pocket. It's worth it to me, especially if the uniform I need for the next day/first day of whatever I'm going to is IN my carry-on. So I suppose I'm paying to carry on a bag, really...:rolleyes:

Can't really think of any mainline domestic carriers that do not offer some variation of priority boarding for a fee.

OP, if you don't have status on an airline, you should make sure to be first in line for whatever boarding group you are in.

I've heard of the demand for excess valuation insurance being used as a counterattack for this by others on FT. Might be worth a try next time.

The whole reason I even have a carry-on when I fly is for those items that are too valuable and fragile to be checked. In my case, that's mostly computer and camera gear.

Having seen a few instances of people being forced to gate-check their bags, I am now paranoid about it and go to great lengths to make sure I board early enough to secure overhead space. If I'm ever delayed or hit with some other circumstance that forces me into gate-checking, I think I'd probably do exactly what OP did and eat whatever charges are necessary.

Of course, if that happened, I'd also complain incessantly to the carrier until they refunded any extra charges I had to accrue.

That is not always possible. E.g. connecting flight is running late, held up unusually long at check-in/security/immigration.

In which case, the "bag-in-bag" scheme is a necessity. Dump the valuables into the small bag, carry that on and gate check the larger one. Unless you've just looted some museum, that ought to work.

Now, most airlines' baggage rules say that certain things should not be put in checked baggage. Specifically mentioned are medicines, valuable, and keys.

Also try calling the airline in advance to see what they suggest when it comes to valuable items being transported.

Rubbish. OP says he was *boarding the plane itself*. He's ticketed, checked in, and has a boarding pass in hand: The airline denied boarding, pure and simple.

In fact, if they did, as OP says, cancel his ticket as a no show in between denying boarding and his eventually ending up back out at the ticket/check in counter then they've probably committed criminal fraud in that they've altered a document for pecuniary gain.


If they're going to deny boarding (if there's no space left for carry on & the pax has a boarding pass and legal carry on (on an airline that allows carry on, etc.) and the pax doesn't want to check the bag) then the airline should be finding another flight for them. Personally, and if this took place in the US, I'd bet cold, hard money that they could have pulled any number of oversized carry on bags from the overheads, checked them, and put the legal carry ons up there instead.



That. ^

Well there's always this difference between de jure and de facto.

The part which rings really true to me is OP getting sloughed off by the FA onto the GA, who has no interest in or knowledge of what transpired onboard. At that point, you've lost all of your rights (de facto) and you're just another nuisance. Not right, not fair, but it rings true.

Most of us have to live in the real world, and plan accordingly.

Very very good advice about bag-in-a-bag.

Air travel is one of the few businesses where we pay to get treated poorly.

Clearly we're in a gray area in the midst of a bunch of different rules: UA doesn't spell it out clearly on their website. "Excess valuation" is a good idea but not one all travelers are well-versed in. The official IDB rules are probably unclear as well - and probably wouldn't apply since UA would say the passenger was allowed boarding, only the bag was denied boarding.

IMHO, the right and human thing to do would have been to allow the OP to rebook a later flight. We're talking SFO-LAX here. Aren't there a bajillion UA flights on this route every day?

In the future, OP should maybe consider one of the other airlines that flies that route a bajillion times a day (Southwest? Virgin?), or do the bag-in-bag thing. But I also believe that UA reacted in the least client-centric manner possible here, proving again why they are such an awful organization on the same level as cable companies and wireless providers.

You're both in the wrong. There's no guarantee of overhead space unless you're flying on a premium ticket or have early boarding status and you're there to board. You have to plan for that.

The Gate Agent could have handled it differently. They have leeway to rebook someone. They were just being difficult. You could head to customer service or see a manager.

Write them and complain about that person specfically. It's not like these folks are getting paid NFL money, they're low on the totem pole and complaints have an impact on them.

I just asked if I could be put on another flight. I assume that would be on standby if there were no seats available, but I didn't use that word. She was just trying to convince me to check my bag, and when I wouldn't budge, she said to go to the ticketing counter.

I don't remember her name, but I have sent the form to customer care. We'll see how they respond.