David Goldberg death and third world risk
May 5, 2015, 6:56 pm
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David Goldberg death and third world risk
Much is being made of factors contributing to David Goldberg's death; reports are that he slipped and fell using a treadmill at a Four Seasons resort in Mexico. The dangers of treadmills and possible distraction from smart phones are mentioned.
The overlooked elephant in the room that is this: he died in the third world (less developed if you prefer). Would he have survived if he suffered the same injury in a country with first world infrastructure? I'm not just talking critical EMS services, but hospitals, building codes, availability of an AED (automated external defibrillator) and not to mention an attendant who could have intervened and called for help.
From a cursory search it appears there are some good hospitals in nearby Puerto Vallarta, but was there a neurosurgeon available? I found some pictures of the Four Seasons Punta Mita fitness center and it appears that the floor is tiled or linoleum. Heck, the budget Hampton Inn I stay in has rubber flooring in the fitness room. If I fell backward from a treadmill there I'm fairly confident my head would bounce like the hand weights I drop and that I would survive. The pictures of the Four Season Punta Mita fitness room (I have not stayed there) show a sign in sheet which implies that guests are unsupervised. Reports are that he was out of contact for up to several hours and his brother found him, not a resort staff.
Granted the biggest risk in those settings is from traffic and you do what you can to mitigate risk and or insure yourself but the infrastructure and hotel management practices are different.
Has anyone asked them self: "if that can happen to a wealthy traveler, what kind of risk do I undertake in less developed countries?" And, this happened in a luxury resort in a (presumably) developed part of Mexico.
Jim
The overlooked elephant in the room that is this: he died in the third world (less developed if you prefer). Would he have survived if he suffered the same injury in a country with first world infrastructure? I'm not just talking critical EMS services, but hospitals, building codes, availability of an AED (automated external defibrillator) and not to mention an attendant who could have intervened and called for help.
From a cursory search it appears there are some good hospitals in nearby Puerto Vallarta, but was there a neurosurgeon available? I found some pictures of the Four Seasons Punta Mita fitness center and it appears that the floor is tiled or linoleum. Heck, the budget Hampton Inn I stay in has rubber flooring in the fitness room. If I fell backward from a treadmill there I'm fairly confident my head would bounce like the hand weights I drop and that I would survive. The pictures of the Four Season Punta Mita fitness room (I have not stayed there) show a sign in sheet which implies that guests are unsupervised. Reports are that he was out of contact for up to several hours and his brother found him, not a resort staff.
Granted the biggest risk in those settings is from traffic and you do what you can to mitigate risk and or insure yourself but the infrastructure and hotel management practices are different.
Has anyone asked them self: "if that can happen to a wealthy traveler, what kind of risk do I undertake in less developed countries?" And, this happened in a luxury resort in a (presumably) developed part of Mexico.
Jim
May 5, 2015, 7:04 pm
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There are reasonable hospitals around PVR. it sounds like this was just too late, as he may have been down and hemorrhaging for a couple of hours.
If the same thing happened in Menlo Park, and he had been rushed to Stanford, might he have survived? Maybe, maybe not. I think his time down before discovery was likely the most decisive factor. From the story, a defibrillator wasn't needed, he still had vitals when he reached the hospital.
Sad story.
If the same thing happened in Menlo Park, and he had been rushed to Stanford, might he have survived? Maybe, maybe not. I think his time down before discovery was likely the most decisive factor. From the story, a defibrillator wasn't needed, he still had vitals when he reached the hospital.
Sad story.
May 5, 2015, 7:09 pm
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http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/05/05..._r=0&referrer=
http://press.fourseasons.com/puntami...dia-statement/
near the Four Seasons Resort in Punta Mita, a large development with two hotels and numerous private residences close to Puerto Vallarta in southwest Mexico, according to a spokesman for the prosecutor’s office in Nayarit State.
general manager of the Four Seasons Punta Mita, said in a phone interview that there had not been any incident at the areas of the resort managed by the company.
general manager of the Four Seasons Punta Mita, said in a phone interview that there had not been any incident at the areas of the resort managed by the company.
Four Seasons would like to clarify that, contrary to some media reports, the tragedy did not take place at Four Seasons Resort Punta Mita. Mr. Goldberg was not a registered guest at our resort, villas or residences. As the tragedy did not take place on our property, nor was Mr. Goldberg a guest, we are not in a position to comment further.
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; May 5, 2015 at 7:51 pm
May 5, 2015, 7:12 pm
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A lot of that sounds like CYA by the management. We'll see what percolates out in the end.
Bottom line is, any one of us could die in a stupid random accident at any time. He could have been on a treadmill at home alone and had the same thing happen.
May 5, 2015, 7:23 pm
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There are good hospitals in Puerto Vallarta as well as nearby Guadalajara via an air ambulance. It sounds like, in this case, same thing could have happened at his home in California. One of those sad accidents that don't make sense and it's difficult to believe someone lost their life to that when you hear of people surviving after getting shot in the chest five times.
I wouldn't be concerned about quality of care or availability unless I had a known condition or a high risk pregnancy. Of course, in that case, the sensible option would be to avoid travel to countries wit both adequate healthcare.
For most it wouldn't be an issue especially if insured -in an emergency, you can just be stabilized and flown to the U.S.
I wouldn't be concerned about quality of care or availability unless I had a known condition or a high risk pregnancy. Of course, in that case, the sensible option would be to avoid travel to countries wit both adequate healthcare.
For most it wouldn't be an issue especially if insured -in an emergency, you can just be stabilized and flown to the U.S.
May 5, 2015, 7:27 pm
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Jim
May 5, 2015, 7:32 pm
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In general, are you more likely to survive an event in a place where there is top of the line medical care? Of course. But then you'd spend your life never going further than a couple of miles from a major hospital.
May 5, 2015, 7:51 pm
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http://nypost.com/2015/05/05/david-g...ll-here-hotel/
its not the hotel, its the mexican government source clarifying their comments
btw hotel is owned by bill gates, and four seasons management company is half owned by bill gates
http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/di...david-goldberg
http://www.palmasola.net/details.htm
accidents happen in homes all the time
The local prosecutor’s office then claimed that the accident happened inside a workout room in the Palmasola, which they thought was owned by the Toronto-based resort.
“I am able to confirm that the tragedy did not occur on-site at Four Seasons and that Mr. Goldberg was not in the Four Seasons gym.”
“I am able to confirm that the tragedy did not occur on-site at Four Seasons and that Mr. Goldberg was not in the Four Seasons gym.”
btw hotel is owned by bill gates, and four seasons management company is half owned by bill gates
http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/di...david-goldberg
Goldberg was staying in Mexico with family at an independently owned villa called Palmasola, which features a gym.
Goldberg never entered the main gym at the Four Seasons, which keeps a record of all users, said resort manager John O'Sullivan.
Goldberg never entered the main gym at the Four Seasons, which keeps a record of all users, said resort manager John O'Sullivan.
Fitness Center
Elliptical trainer, Treadmill, Hand weights, Workout Bench and exercise mats.
Elliptical trainer, Treadmill, Hand weights, Workout Bench and exercise mats.
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; May 5, 2015 at 7:58 pm
May 5, 2015, 7:57 pm
#10
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Since I don't have any particular risk factors for problems and I don't participate in high-risk sports/activities, I think the risks are pretty minor and the rewards are most likely much greater. So I won't avoid developing countries because of the less developed "chain of survival" that might be there.
May 5, 2015, 8:59 pm
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David Goldberg death and third world risk
Maybe it was murder. Somebody clubbed him with a dumbbell. They found him still conscious but I never heard them say he told them what happened.