Not for me, I noted upthread, with the shade open, the inside of the plane and outside "merge"--a more spacious environment.

[With all shades in the down position, the "sardine can" is even more confining.]

In the case being discussed here though, the cabin crew were requested to ask by another passenger.

It appears he was doing it for his own selfish reasons so deserves the refusal.

Would you still side with him in taking your imaginary retribution?

Speaking of long haul flights, the concept applied should be "what does the majority want". On eastbound TATL, most people want to sleep. The actions of 1 (or a few) should not be detrimental to the rest of the cabin.

I have even had the FA walk around with a dinner tray closing windows after the window seat person left the window open on red-eyes. Even though it is night when we take off, eventually the sun will rise.

It depends on my preference and my mood at the time.

But the people who press their noses against the window to stare slack-jawed at the clouds and ignore a request from the cabin crew to close the blinds should consider their position and the potential repercussions.

Dismiss my position as "imaginary" at the risk of your dry pants as you wish.

^ That would entertain me for all of about 30 seconds. And people who claim they want to look at the scenery on a TPAC???

Thankfully if you talk to a FA they will pretty much *always* ask the guy to close the shade.

To each his own. I love looking out the window even over the ocean.

Ah, the cry of the keyboard kommando, very brave when there's nothing on the line and undoubtedly every bit so when the call light is on.

I try to get a window seat because I like the views. Now in the early morning with the sun shining through I will close or pull down the shade but he who sits at the window controls the window shade.

Hysterically funny. From the comfort of his own keyboard he maligns someone else secure in the knowledge that he'll never have to answer in person for his remarks. Pathetic. Truly pathetic. :rolleyes:

I post under my real name, and my address is findable online, and I fail to see what it is in my remarks I should answer for.

It's easy, but unworthy of polite discourse, to suggest this kind of passive-aggressive reprisal from the comfort of your living room or wherever you post from.

It's quite another to try it in person, and if you actually do it (which I'm inclined to doubt), I hope you enjoy explaining it to flight crew who will undoubtedly simply instruct you to let the window seat occupant out to use the lavatory, and then go back to their station and roll their eyes at the general lack of courtesy both you and the open-window person displayed.

(Moreover a courteous window-seat occupant on a 3-across segment will often wait, if possible, until one of the middle/aisle get up anyway. Or perhaps you'd block the middle-seat occupant, or attempt to body-check the window-seat occupant should he or see follow? Silliness, as is the original suggestion.)

Well said. ^

Very well said

I find it impossible to sleep on airplanes and the sight of sunrise is particularly demoralizing. Other than that, keep the shade up unless there's hideous glare!

You seem to be missing the point. I'm not likely to be in this position, so my trousers will remain OK.

A previous poster gave a DYKWIA scenario and I replied.

I can't believe you would side with the DYKWIA unless the cap also fits you.

I hope most of you who have such seemingly strong feelings about seeing a bit of daylight aren't around when Richard Branson introduces his flight of fancy - the aisle seats will be sought by all :)

http://www.virgin.com/richard-branso...bottomed-plane

i read (books) on flights. the majority of the passengers in biz classs seem to be watching the video thing. i do not. i do not pay 5 grand to have a vote to have the shade closed, and i have to sit for 10+ hrs in the semi dark, trying to read my book. this majority rules thing is an absurdity, and unmanageable. the overhead lights, or the side seat lamps are lousy for reading. if any one of the telly watchers tried to use one,they would understand.

I call bs. Nothing wrong with these. Maybe you need new glasses.


seems to work reasonably well for most democracies around the world....

The logical solution, of course, would be to have part of the cabin open for those who want light, and part of the cabin dimmed for those who want darkness.

I have started to try to think more about what side will be facing the sun when I travel, and plan my seats that way. But I personally do specifically enjoy looking out the window - more importantly I find it very discomforting to be sitting in a dark cave like tube. For so many travelers who complain about jet lag and boring flights, has anyone considered that much of the problem is that you are not experiencing natural light? The very same situation as sitting in a dark theater or room with the shades closed and lights out. It disrupts your natural rhythms.

For those who claim that there is nothing to see out the window and they can do without, why does your video watching and game playing become more important? Cannot that be done on the ground just as easily? you can get glare protectors for your screens. I agree the seat back screens do have faults, but that can be simply fixed with side guards.

Perhaps someone can invent a window screen polarizer you can put up on the window - to cut down on the glare inside but still allow passengers to look out.

no, i do not see well. , or walk well, so that mean i cannot read because you want the shade down all the way from tokyo to nyc. buy out the plane, then you can play with the light.


[Political commentary deleted by Moderator as off-topic in TravelBuzz.]

Moderator note.
 

To keep the thread open, let's keep it free of political discussion. I've edited/deleted posts which took this thread off-topic.

Those wishing to discuss politics and who have at least 180-days of FT membership and 180 posts are most welcome to do so in the OMNI-PR forum. Thanks, Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator.

IMO, if the front pax is able to see via this middle window, it would be his/her control.
Otherwise, the back pax should have the control.
I never had problems with this approach.
^

so because you have an eye issue and need 50,000 lux to read your book the entire cabin gets to stay awake? How considerate. Perfect example of "me, me, me".

On the other hand though, that's exactly the argument being made by people who demand that the shades be closed so they can sleep "just because you need it to be perfectly dark no one in the cabin can look out the window? Perfect example of "me, me, me". If somebody wants to make sure they can sleep, they should bring an eye shade and ear plugs. Then they know they'll be able to sleep through whatever minor annoyances they encounter from other passengers. If somebody's ability to sleep is sufficiently sensitive that an eye shade an ear plugs aren't sufficient for them to sleep, then they could consider an over the counter or prescription sleeping pill. I see it as being no different than somebody who knows they are going to be cold bringing a jacket. It is simply using a little foresight and being proactive to give oneself a more comfortable travel experience. It is entirely possible for people who want the window shade open to have it open and for people who want to sleep to sleep both get their desires at the same time. I have far more sympathy for people complaining about glare on screens, but that's a much more minor issue based on the commentary in this thread.

And the people who want to watch the IFE but can't because of the glare on their screen? They're supposed to bring their own screens with them? Or bring a cardboard box they can wrap around the screen to block the glare?

What you describe (people wanting the shades closed) is not "me, me, me" it's "we, we, we". That's why the FAs will always take the "close the shade" side.

In specific instances where there's glare on a particular IFE screen, I would think the pax could politely ask and the window pax would politely lower the shade. 15 minutes later, the position of the sun would be such that the glare wouldn't be an issue anymore.

The problem is that your rant seems to infer that the shades should be down all the time because a glare issue might happen for some amount of time during the flight on some screens. @:-)

So what entitles them to anything more than those who want the windows open? If you don't like the windows open, choose a window seat. Or as pointed out bring eye shades.

It seems we have grown to a generation of being entitled to watch TV and Movies. Where someones inconvenience overrides someone else's health and comfort. Lives in a dark tube so we don't have to see anybody else and don't have to acknowledge anyone else.

Why are people so obsessed with sleeping and sitting in the dark during the day anyways?

Sun shining directly into the eyes is one thing. Wanting to just open or close for their own enjoyment is quite different. I have had an aisle pax ask for the window open so they could look out. If that I so important, book a window seat and stop staring at me....

Common sense says if the sun I shining DIRECTLY into someone's eyes, that you should close it. I have been the recipient. Of the sunlight with a totally clueless window seater. I survived though.

Can this be a US centric problem? My thousands of flying hours on EU3 metal have never been crossed by a request to shut the blind on a day flight, although I do close it for an "overnight" even if it's day light outside. Maybe we're not quite so superglued to a screen over here and the eye shades I have used when I've wanted to doze have been quite acceptable in letting no light in at all.

My "rant"? Interesting description.

But, yes, since the glare will move around and interfere with different people at different times then rather than 2 dozen people taking turns asking you politely to lower the shade it makes far more sense to simply be courteous and keep the shade down.

How is that for a "rant"?

+1
This was the point I made earlier in this thread.

And no, they don't need to be closed all the time. In the middle of meal service, I could care less (and i think plenty of other people. But once that is done, most people prefer to catch some sleep, and that is why the FA's work to get shades closed.

I give it a 94, it has a great beat and I can dance to it. :D :D :D

Honestly. "The glare will move around?" The sun isn't like the flashlight you're dancing around near the cat to get them to chase it. It's a fixed object moving at a rather slow pace in a rather predictable way. When the sun rises, it might strike a pax through a window; in that case if the window pax realizes it they should be courteous; if the non-window pax needs help they should ask courteously.

"Two dozen people taking turns asking you to lower the shade?" Drama queen much?

The sun doesn't move around but the plane does. Altitude changes, directional changes, etc. So, yes, the glare moves around. One person in coach with his window shade open can easily affect a couple of dozen people over time. So the suggestion that if the glare affects you, ask to close the shade amounts to a couple of dozen people having to ask.

clearly the answer is to fly in cabins equipped with suites :)

Like many things on these boards, it is a Flyertalk problem, not an actual problem. 99.99% of flyers couldn't care less.

I have had similar experiences with Euro and other non-US carriers, especially on short haul flights. In fact, most carriers I have flown outside the US require shades to be up for takeoff and landing as a safety measure, and it has always struck me as odd it isn't required in the US.

It depends where you're sitting on the plane too. Especially if you're on/just behind the wing, the glare reflecting off the wing can be pretty strong. On a recent TATL I had the 'amusing' experience of going almost blind when just looking to my left. I think the whole row sighed relief when I (politely) asked the lady in the A-seat of my row to close her shade. She had been so occupied by her book that she had not once looked up or noticed the bright lights.

Don't understand why someone would ever need an FA to make such a basic request of a fellow passenger.

Maybe you shouldn't fly.

Often rather have the FA make a request instead of getting in an argument with a fellow passenger. Let's face it, in the scenario above the guy had to know that he was creating a problem. So depending on him for courtesy, or a courteous response to your request, is a tad to optimistic for me.

^^^

Maybe he just shouldn't fly long-haul red-eyes.

There are primarily-daytime alternatives on pretty much every route out there, even if there are some where the overnight flights are the main options.

If you've got a flight leaving at say, 10AM or noon, and you're complaining about the light and not being able to sleep, it's particularly disingenuous. Even with a 12-hour long-haul, that's going to be primarily waking hours for someone on the local clock.