"Invasion" by Arab Gulf Airlines.
#286
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
To me it seems like more of a pre-emptive strike. They know that if EK started 4 daily A380s flying DXB-LHR-JFK people would flee AA/DL/BA etc. in droves.
#287
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,980
#288
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2012
Programs: A3, AA. Plasticy things! That give me, y'know, Stuff!
Posts: 6,293
And the US laws are designed to protect tax and payroll first. That's what it means to protect against creditors. You owe my company money and you go into Chapter 11, employee and the government get protected before I do. I'm a creditor. I'm last. That's why I'm willing to negotiate a restructuring of debt and keep the company alive. Otherwise I get nothing.
In most other countries the receivers (the court appointed managers who take over the company to wind it up) may see a way to save the company and that may include trying to renegotiate debts, but that's seldom the way it happens. The US is (almost (I know of one other country that has broadly similar laws)) unique in allowing companies to reorganize and simply shed/renegotiate debt, in allowing the current managers to remain in place while they (having run the company to bankruptcy in the first place) apply very generous rules to get themselves out of the situation.
Just to drag this back towards topic, I'm of the opinion that the ME carriers are playing a very careful game within the rules. They don't get subsidies. They do, as they say, get capital investments, just as US carriers do - only it's government money going in, which is neither here nor there IMO. US carriers, however, do get similar (& IMO greater) benefits in that the tax laws are written in a way that they can avoid most, if not all, US tax. I don't see how the subsidy is dressed up really matters. US carriers wouldn't survive a genuinely free market and they know it. It's why no US carrier is genuinely competitive globally: they have the power/rights/potential to do exactly what the ME carriers are trying. They don't because they know they'd fail.
#289
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
#290
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
#291
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,980
So yes for the most part. Now when we go to Paris this fall it's AF metal and from VCE back EK.
#292
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
#293
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Scotland
Programs: Star Alliance
Posts: 476
#294
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,980
#297
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,805
im not going to fly to EU via ME, but then im paying cash for nonstop Y
re non-EU carrier >
SQ JFK-FRA (A380 suites) and IAH-DME as well as GRU-BCN
9W EWR/YYZ-BRU
NZ LAX-LHR
back to EK >
JFK HAM oct 29 2006 - mar 30 2008 (announced stop in dec 2007)
JFK MXP oct 1 2013 -
i guess US carriers are feeling comfortable/profitable enough now so they are willing to spend money and energy on this "issue" and perhaps they feel now is a good time politically as well, perhaps including 2016 US elections
ah, italian court had ruled that EK had to stop after march 2015, but appeal just overturned that in mid december
thread in EK forum (started same time as this thread - nov 2014) still going strong >
jul 2014 - US airlines and airbus release Q2 financials
aug 2014 - A380 thread started
oct 2014 - US airlines release Q3 financials
nov 2014 - 2 threads started after US mid term elections (was lobbying happening prior?)
re dropping JFK HAM in dec 2007, EK #s >
(their fiscal year runs april to march)
re non-EU carrier >
SQ JFK-FRA (A380 suites) and IAH-DME as well as GRU-BCN
9W EWR/YYZ-BRU
NZ LAX-LHR
back to EK >
JFK HAM oct 29 2006 - mar 30 2008 (announced stop in dec 2007)
JFK MXP oct 1 2013 -
i guess US carriers are feeling comfortable/profitable enough now so they are willing to spend money and energy on this "issue" and perhaps they feel now is a good time politically as well, perhaps including 2016 US elections
ah, italian court had ruled that EK had to stop after march 2015, but appeal just overturned that in mid december
thread in EK forum (started same time as this thread - nov 2014) still going strong >
The Obama administration, marking its first written response to US airlines’ lobbying effort, has asked for more information on their claims that Gulf carriers have received market-distorting subsidies.
The administration asked US airline representatives about 20 questions in writing last week about their method in determining the subsidy allegations and about the market harm they say Gulf carriers have caused them, according to a person familiar with the matter.
The request for more proof reflects the growing focus on the debate in Washington. The questions are factual and did not suggest that the US administration was either swayed or skeptical.
Leaders in the US House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure recently called on the administration to look into the allegations, while US airlines repeated their request on Tuesday for the United States to open talks with Qatar and the UAE on the “Open Skies” agreements that authorise flying between the nations.
http://khaleejtimes.ae/biz/inside.as...on_March29.xml
The administration asked US airline representatives about 20 questions in writing last week about their method in determining the subsidy allegations and about the market harm they say Gulf carriers have caused them, according to a person familiar with the matter.
The request for more proof reflects the growing focus on the debate in Washington. The questions are factual and did not suggest that the US administration was either swayed or skeptical.
Leaders in the US House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure recently called on the administration to look into the allegations, while US airlines repeated their request on Tuesday for the United States to open talks with Qatar and the UAE on the “Open Skies” agreements that authorise flying between the nations.
http://khaleejtimes.ae/biz/inside.as...on_March29.xml
aug 2014 - A380 thread started
oct 2014 - US airlines release Q3 financials
nov 2014 - 2 threads started after US mid term elections (was lobbying happening prior?)
re dropping JFK HAM in dec 2007, EK #s >
(their fiscal year runs april to march)
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Mar 20, 2015 at 1:56 am
#298
Senior Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: UA Plat/2MM [23-yr. 1K, now emeritus] clawing way back to WN-A List; MR LT Titanium; HY Whateverist.
Posts: 12,390
Moderator reminder.
A final reminder of post 268 above, in case some members are looking for the whereabouts of their very recent posts.... Thanks to those who have avoided digressions into politics. Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator.
As some members have noted, and it's appreciated, this TravelBuzz thread needs to avoid open political discussion that would be fine in FT's OMNI/PR forum, but not here.
At the same time, general economic considerations could be germane to the thread's topic. Going forward, could we focus away from overt political discussion? Recent posts stepping over the line have been edited/deleted. Thanks, Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator.
At the same time, general economic considerations could be germane to the thread's topic. Going forward, could we focus away from overt political discussion? Recent posts stepping over the line have been edited/deleted. Thanks, Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator.
#299
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,980
So let's try it this way does anyone really think that there will be sanctions on Mid Eastern Countries that provide oil as well as as "friendly" face in a very troubled region?
AND do we simply because their US based carriers simply roll over and block free market expansion? And don't forget the EU is not overly friendly in their interpretation of "open skies" Having spent several years serving in the AF I can say Hmm
my thoughts with a lot of lipstick on it ! Go for it guys
#300
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
I agree if your referring to my last post. I wrote the moderator about other post.
So let's try it this way does anyone really think that there will be sanctions on Mid Eastern Countries that provide oil as well as as "friendly" face in a very troubled region?
AND do we simply because their US based carriers simply roll over and block free market expansion? And don't forget the EU is not overly friendly in their interpretation of "open skies" Having spent several years serving in the AF I can say Hmm
my thoughts with a lot of lipstick on it ! Go for it guys
So let's try it this way does anyone really think that there will be sanctions on Mid Eastern Countries that provide oil as well as as "friendly" face in a very troubled region?
AND do we simply because their US based carriers simply roll over and block free market expansion? And don't forget the EU is not overly friendly in their interpretation of "open skies" Having spent several years serving in the AF I can say Hmm
my thoughts with a lot of lipstick on it ! Go for it guys