edgewood49

I agree which is exactly what I do I fly ME3 for the clean metal, service friendly staff rather sour FA's with US metal.

Other posters have said that they will "run out of money" I highly doubt that their business is continually growing and not only US flyers. As for the President acting, geez another bad decision from this administration, I don't think so.

Bottom line the us carriers should pull their collective heads out and compete good old fashion hard work. And oh, buy some US metal

Madone59

Exactly! The US airlines are only complaining because the ME3 have refused fold into the existing global airline alliance structure and have enough critical mass to influence global air travel.

If it was Lufthansa, Cathay Pacific or any other airline that continues to beat the US 3 on service, operating a fleet like EK outside of the alliance structure we'd he hearing complaints about how Germany...or China subsidizes their carrier(s).

It is time for the us Airlines to evolve or quiet down!

iahphx

Again, this is incorrect thinking. The US airlines can compete against anyone. They are very mean and lean. They are run by outstanding businessmen (well, I don't really know about UA due to their current turmoil). But you can't compete against a company that's controlled by a government that's willing to pour billions into subsidizing the product. Nobody can compete against that. As a for-profit enterprise, you have to fly routes and offer service where your revenues cover your costs (and then try to make a profit for your shareholders). The ME3 don't have these constraints -- they have the proverbial blank check. So you just have to stay out of their way, or complain to your elected officials about what's going on.

edgewood49

Somebody has been drinking the "Kool Aide " or work for the airlines. "mean and lean" really ? Example what if the US carriers were forbidden to have used the US Bankruptcy laws that shed millions of liabilities? What if they were forbidden to use the tax breaks they enjoy ? Do you really the word service is on the tongue of each of them? It's an afterthought. Much like the major hotel's they are being watched over by large scale investors and VE firms

cmd320

US airlines have some of the highest labor costs for some of the worst employees in the industry. They are run by lawyers and drunks, and they could dip into their billions in profit and pretty easily offer the exact same product ME3 offer on most of their aircraft. They don't because it's easier to complain to (and presumably bribe) the government than it is to explain to the shareholders why they need to cater some Dom and Krug for intercontinental F, spend more money on training employees on how to properly offer service in a premium cabin, refresh menus to offer edible and presentable food, get rid of the ridiculously terrible regional business products (misleading labeled as domestic "first") and add something acceptable, and offer an explanation as to why none of this was done 10 years ago when it should have been.

If AA were willing to offer the same product EK does on its A380s, this whole debate would come down to price. In reality, US airlines can undercut ME3 on price, and do at times, but they cannot offer an equivalent product.

cbn42

Customers don't care, but governments do (and should). Customers will usually buy the product that represents the best value. The national economy is not their concern. The government, however, has an obligation to make sure that treaties are being followed and that there is a level playing field in the marketplace.

It's easy being an armchair CEO, isn't it?

cmd320

The government already allowed the US airline industry to tip in favor of the mega-carriers by letting them condense and not blocking a single merger. In that respect the government already failed the consumer.. Ignoring the petty and unsubstantiated complaints of US(AA)/DL/UA regarding ME airlines is a small way of giving the consumer some form of hope. Realistically we need foreign competition in the domestic market. US airlines should have all failed long ago, but limping them along with Ch. 11 bankruptcies we've allowed somewhat decent airlines to turn into an oligopoly of overpriced garbage products and services.

I would argue that the only easier job in the world is being a real US airline CEO. It requires less knowledge and common sense, but pays a decent bit more.

edgewood49

cbn42

True, but again irrelevant to the subsidy issue. Funny how people respond to the subsidy allegations by complaining about how bad the US carriers are. It seems like people decide which party they like better, and then believe the facts that support that side.

None of this is about consumers. Of course it's better for US consumers, in the short run at least, to have their flights subsidized by foreign governments. This is about the US industry and the jobs of US workers. If you're looking at it solely from the consumer's perspective, then of course the more subsidies, the cheaper the flights.

Wow.

cmd320

LOL! Don't believe the party line here. This has nothing to do with the employees of AA, DL, or UA. The second the US government allowed them to, every single one of those companies would fire their workforce and use the cruise line model of registering their fleet abroad and crewing them with the cheapest possible labor they could find.

This is about other companies coming in with better products and threatening the US airlines' ability to make billions in excess profits for the shareholders without reinvesting any meaningful amount of that money in customer experience, employees, equipment, infrastructure, IT, etc.

But of course, they can't say that, so they'll tell you it's about American jobs...

Hengilas

And even then, Emirates supports an incredible amount of American jobs. I'm a long-time AA flyer but appreciate how successful Emirates has been and the new competition they bring to the market

edgewood49

Example I walked onto a DL flight west coast to NRT "biz" one seat was taped with "duck tape" the inflight entertainment went out several times and the food was for crap. Much to the FA's credit they did seem really embarrassed. Then returning from GUM to NRT back the front was half full with DL staff seemingly mid level and they did party! Loudly.

No sadly the international product of the US carriers is in the toilet.

iahphx

Yeah, when there was a discussion about this on the Emirates board, I was amazed by how many people refuse to believe what is painfully obvious: which is that the Middle East airlines do not operate with the financial constraints that all the other airlines in the world operate under. The idea that they're "financially successful" as that term is commonly understood is preposterous.

I could go on ad nauseum with the facts, but those who don't want to listen, won't. When the music stops -- and it will, as it always does -- we'll see how "successful" these airlines truly are.

One thing that has not gotten any attention in the world media is the economic outlook in Dubai. They're in a very tough spot. The Dirham is pegged to the dollar, but most of their airline customers now pay them in weak currencies. And the strong dollar is decimating their tourist industry. I might also mention that oil, the lifeblood of the regional economy has been halved in price in the past year.

Faced with such a severe economic downturn, "real" airlines would obviously scale back their services. But when it comes to the ME3, everything is unreal. For now, at least.

wco81

I don't care if they're subsidized.

If they can provide better flights at competitive prices and at routings and times which work for me, that's great.

And yeah, I do hope they put pressure on the legacies to up their game.

JDiver

It's ironic. The US carriers want freedom from regulation and interference, pile up the mergers, anti-trust immunities, joint business ventures and yet they want protection from competition (even as they devalue frequent flyer programs and take in record profits).