nkedel

I think allowing foreign competition (especially from carriers which hail from places with labor treatment problems, like the Gulf) would be a bad thing.

That said, the present oligopoly is even worse.

That's a valid alternative if you can actually get things back to a competitive market; that said, I'd extend the timeline of bad mergers back to at least 14 years to catch AA-TWA, and I haven't followed the fallout of Southwest-Airtran enough to know if it's had the same negative effect as all of the mergers among the majors has.

wco81

Didn't the govt. used to go after monopolies and break them up?

Though in this case, probably no credibility since they approved all the damn mergers.

GUWonder

It's government assistance. And where is the evidence that proves that U.S. airlines are paying higher rates for just about everything because of it?


Foreign airlines with governmental equity shareholders do already fly to UAE airports, including some on routes served by UAE flagged carriers.

I'm sure that some of the rulers in the UAE would welcome foreign investors coming to their local airports to compete against rival Emirati parties. There just don't seem to be any such airlines from the US interested in investing in such a start-up in the UAE. My bet is that they are welcome to try to do so. Keep in mind that the UAE is not a monolithic state -- it's a den of intra-Emirati rivalries and intrigues.

EuropeanPete

I did enjoy some slightly odd claims from US Congressman that Norwegian shouldn't be allowed to fly to the US because of the lax Labour laws in the socialist paradise of Norway.

As an occasional customer of domestic US flights (~5-10 per year), I'd love for just a bit of fair competition to stop the downward spiral of poor management and limited competition which you're seeing at the moment.

Maybe the model could be another 1-2 Virgin Americas to push the envelope on service and product a bit.

edgewood49

[Edited by Moderator per explanation below.]

I took the time on a flight from LAX to Dubai on EK to chat with a few FA's about their experience flying for EK, the make up was two Americans one Brit . They all said that the ability to fly international from the start was a huge factor. Their comment with regard to the rules and regs was all jobs have them!
Now certainly I am not naive to think they were going to be negative to a total stranger but through 16 hours they maintained their position.

***
[Edited by Moderator per explanation below.]

BigOrangeTerp

It's amusing seeing the legacies make these Nostradamus-like predictions of what will happen to American air travel if the ME3 are allowed to operate with subsidies. "No more American jobs! They'll run us all out of business and then make service worse!"

Instead of arguing for the kind of support from the US government that the UAE government provides its airlines, they just want to continue their race to the bottom where they maximize profit and slash costs. That's all they care about. They don't want to match the quality of service provided by the ME3, they want to kill the ME3 so that they can continue treating US passengers as cattle.

cmd320

This is exactly what's going on. All the other sensationalist claims of government subsidies and work conditions are BS. Even if the work conditions at QR, EK, EY, etc. are appalling (which they are not) I can guarantee Dick, Doug, and Jeff would do the exact same thing if they were legally allowed to, if not far worse. US airlines want to operate in a vacuum all to themselves and force the US flying public to endure their abysmal products.

BigOrangeTerp

Work conditions are one thing, but I really don't get the brouhaha about subsidies. Governments subsidize all sorts of things. We subsidize the hell out of corn in the US.

cmd320

I'm not saying I agree with poor work conditions. But I would guarantee the moment they were legally allowed to do so, US airlines would register their planes internationally and hire international crews at rates far lower than what they would be required to pay in the US (just like the cruise industry).

BigOrangeTerp

Yep, maritime shipping did the same thing. The legacies don't care about US labor, just look at how strained their relations with the unions are. They're just trying to rile up the populist "they took our jobs" sentiment to influence the government into restricting ME3 presence.

I look forward to the day I can get a relatively cheap, comfortable flight from DFW to SCL without smashing my knees in AA's outdated 777 (a privilege that costs about $2000). I don't care if it's on LAN or Emirates frankly.

cmd320

Looks like Deep Discount Doug has jumped on the bandwagon...

Link

I've bolded my favorite part. Actually Doug, I think there's a huge question as to whether or not US carriers can compete with any airline in the world. Just goes to show you how delusional he is with the product offering at his airline...

#goingforgreat

kulflyer

Why just the ME airlines and why just Europe? Why don't we stop UA/DL/AA from picking up passengers from NRT/HND on the way to SIN? One flight from Milan is OK? What determines that? If UA/DL/ALL can't entice their home base customers to fly them, then by all mean let them lose money and go out of business. That's the nature of business. Don't cater to the demands of your customers, you lose out. Treat your customers badly, you lose out.

Ocn Vw 1K

As some members have noted, and it's appreciated, this TravelBuzz thread needs to avoid open political discussion that would be fine in FT's OMNI/PR forum, but not here.

At the same time, general economic considerations could be germane to the thread's topic. Going forward, could we focus away from overt political discussion? Recent posts stepping over the line have been edited/deleted. Thanks, Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator.

cbn42

It's a basic economic principle that if you have a history of not paying your debts, your cost of borrowing will go up.

That's different from setting up an airline based in the UAE. Foreign airlines flying to the UAE can't take advantage of the country's lax labor regulations.

GUWonder

That says nothing about the borrowing costs of the bankruptcy-sheltered US airlines relatives to other airlines which have had no such bankruptcy protection.

Keep in mind that those who have successfully received US bankruptcy protection and had debts rescheduled or eliminated by the bankruptcy filing proceedings often get extended better borrowing terms from creditors than various deeply indebted parties that have not or cannot file for US bankruptcy protection. Often immediately after the bankruptcy proceedings are concluded.

It's the same as what you posted about earlier. . Foreign airlines flying to the UAE can take advantage of the UAE's legal systems by investing in the UAE in the air passenger service sector if they so wish, but the US3 and their carnal cartel mates in Europe seem more interested in whining and seeking out further governmental assistance/protectionism in various forms than getting creative and playing things more akin to DY's attempted games.

Does the UAE have a law against foreign investors having a controlling stake in carriers that fly the UAE flag from the UAE? Not that I've seen. It seems open to it from what I can say. I can't say the same for the US with the paranoia about foreign investors in this sector.